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Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
I think the difference that most people are taking from Houndoc's responses are that you guys are focusing on the protesters and rioters versus the fact that the federal government is sending troops in. The problem I have with this is that other than protecting federal property and arresting those that they directly witness committing a federal crime, they should not be involved....unless asked by the local government to help intervene. Those federal police have no right to be involved in any of the other arrests or any of the other controlling of the riots period, that falls to the local police. If they are not going to handle it that is still not the federal governments job to step in and enforce and arrest those that commit local crimes. They are there for federal crimes alone . I think that everyone will agree that the rioters and the vandalism and the looting and the criminal activity should be dealt with. The differentiating factor that I am reading in Houndocs posts is that he is against the federal agents being involved in doing any enforcement of there then to protect and arrest when federal property or federal crimes are committed.

Federal government sending troops or agents into a US municipality without being asks sets a very disturbing precedent that could have ramifications for a long time to come
 
UNSTUCK

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
Not sure how I feel about the federal officers intervening. My initial thought is, if I'm a sworn in officer and I see any crime being committed I'm going to step in and try to help. Even if it's not my "area". We hear of this frequently of cops on vacation or whatnot jumping in to help out. The Die Hard movies would have been pretty lame if John McKlane would not have got involved.


Often times I wish there was instant voting on a topic. I think it would be nice if, in this case, the mayor of Portland could put up a question on a website for the citizens of Portland to log on to and cast their vote. "Vote yes or no: Do we allow rioters to destroy our city, no matter who owns the property?" Then give the majority what they want.
 
Houndoc

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
Pike2350 said:
I think the difference that most people are taking from Houndoc's responses are that you guys are focusing on the protesters and rioters versus the fact that the federal government is sending troops in. The problem I have with this is that other than protecting federal property and arresting those that they directly witness committing a federal crime, they should not be involved....unless asked by the local government to help intervene. Those federal police have no right to be involved in any of the other arrests or any of the other controlling of the riots period, that falls to the local police. If they are not going to handle it that is still not the federal governments job to step in and enforce and arrest those that commit local crimes. They are there for federal crimes alone . I think that everyone will agree that the rioters and the vandalism and the looting and the criminal activity should be dealt with. The differentiating factor that I am reading in Houndocs posts is that he is against the federal agents being involved in doing any enforcement of there then to protect and arrest when federal property or federal crimes are committed.

Federal government sending troops or agents into a US municipality without being asks sets a very disturbing precedent that could have ramifications for a long time to come
Click to expand...

Very well said. You clarified my point very well, thank you.
 
mbryson

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Location
Bountiful, land of rocks
I'm thinking I'm in agreement with the above the Federal troops. I'm totally fine with them protecting Federal assets. State assets (or private assets) should be controlled on a state/civic level (at least in my mind). Overstepping protecting the Federal courthouse (or immediate surroundings that would threaten the Federal courthouse) is not something I'd endorse at all.

I still think the local government is "bafooning" this to the highest level. Possibly on purpose to put Trump in a bad spot and make Biden look like a real candidate? I'm still a bit shocked that Trump got elected, and VERY shocked at the Dems response to that. One day we might have a big kid government but the bulk (all?) of our representatives in government are pretty self serving and not real interested in what I believe "civic service" should be.


When I did have TV service it was sometimes interesting to watch/listen to Faux News, Manipulated Sham News Broadcasting Corporation {MSNBC}, and Contrived News Network et all and see the incredibly different pictures of events that were painted out of ANY national event.
 
P

Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
mbryson said:
I still think the local government is "bafooning" this to the highest level.
Click to expand...

This I think pretty much everyone here can agree with. If I lived in Portland I'd be pissed at the local leaderships response.

I just dont like that Trump thinks he should/technically has the power to send troops into US cities. Sure, put them on guard at federal buildings/assets...but I don't trust him to try and only keep it to that. I think his big head and narcissistic nature he will try and order them to intervene way more then they can constitutionally.

Let's also be honest...if Obama had done this to right wing protestors many/most here would ve crying foul. Hell they did with Ammon Bundy and he WAS on federal land and holding a standoff with the .gov and people were still pissed how that was handled by Obama....and Im3 not defending Obama...merely pointing out the hypocrisy on both sides lately. "As long as it's my side it's OK" mindset is far too prevalent in this countey
 
mbryson

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Location
Bountiful, land of rocks
Pike2350 said:
....Let's also be honest...if Obama had done this to right wing protestors many/most here would ve crying foul. Hell they did with Ammon Bundy and he WAS on federal land and holding a standoff with the .gov and people were still pissed how that was handled by Obama....and Im3 not defending Obama...merely pointing out the hypocrisy on both sides lately. "As long as it's my side it's OK" mindset is far too prevalent in this countey
Click to expand...


I totally agree. I think it does depend on which source you ingest your "journalism" from (Faux News, Manipulated Sham News Broadcasting Corporation {MSNBC}, and Contrived News Network, et all) what side of the fence you come down on. Be nice if there was something out there you could trust.
 
Unimog

Unimog

Eric
Location
Stansbury Park, UT
I get that they could represent this any way they wanted, but this press conference makes me feel better about the feds recognizing their appropriate limits. Interesting how, according to them, the extent of the "protests" in Portland are not happening anywhere else.
 
mbryson

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Location
Bountiful, land of rocks
Hickey said:
And that there is a history of this problem in Portland due to the lack of work done by the Mayor and Governor.
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.... so "kids" with shitty parenting (meaning parents don't hold their kids accountable for their own actions and teach them to work for what they get) are getting "schooled" by Federal agents trying to get someone out of the Federal compound?
 
UNSTUCK

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
How much longer will these federal agents play nice? And what will happen when one of them gets hurt/killed by fireworks or something else and they no longer play nice? I don't want anyone to die, but I'm ready for them to take it up a notch and put the fear of God into some rioters.
 
mbryson

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Location
Bountiful, land of rocks
UNSTUCK said:
How much longer will these federal agents play nice? And what will happen when one of them gets hurt/killed by fireworks or something else and they no longer play nice? I don't want anyone to die, but I'm ready for them to take it up a notch and put the fear of God into some rioters.
Click to expand...


I would assume they've already had some injuries from the "protesters"? I would bet they've shown quite a bit of restraint so far. Most cops show more restraint than we know. From being an IT guy, I can try to "reset" after every interaction. I would imagine the same of almost anyone that deals with a "customer". Sometimes I get a little short due to previous interactions during my day or experience with specific people. Again, I can't imagine an officer is different and they are dealing with life/death/stupidity/drugs/accidents/abusive situations/addictions/homelessness/etc that I can't even put myself in the place of. Tough job for a "normal" officer. These Feds have more training, deal with more specific types of issues but you can only push a person so far. I'm SURE the "protesters" are banking someone losing their cool on them and then they are the "Ammon Bundy" of the progressive movement.

There are SO MANY cameras and such out there. SO MANY blogs and "reporting" that whatever happens will get slanted whichever way the author/presenter wants it to look.
 
J

J-mobzz

Well-Known Member
I just started watching an interview with president trump and the barstool sports guy. He brought up very quickly Portland and while he didn’t name them other than not military he said “we sent in strong people” wow 😳 just wow. Even our president can’t identify the type of force being sent in yet we as Americans are supposed to trust our government? They created a military like force of “strong people” unnamed to take care of state police work. I’m just shook.
 
Hickey

Hickey

Burn-barrel enthusiast
Supporting Member
Location
Grantsville, Utah
J-mobzz said:
I just started watching an interview with president trump and the barstool sports guy. He brought up very quickly Portland and while he didn’t name them other than not military he said “we sent in strong people” wow 😳 just wow. Even our president can’t identify the type of force being sent in yet we as Americans are supposed to trust our government? They created a military like force of “strong people” unnamed to take care of state police work. I’m just shook.
Click to expand...
The press conference video above goes into detail about the federal agents and officers in Portland right now.

mbryson said:
I would assume they've already had some injuries from the "protesters"? I would bet they've shown quite a bit of restraint so far. Most cops show more restraint than we know.
Click to expand...
The press conference video describes injuries that these agents and officers have already sustained.
 
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