question about porcupine rim trail?

[andy d]

in my moab trail book by charles wells, he describes the trail going to the actual rim and then coming back the same way. however, on the sfra map issued to me at the gate, it shows the porcupine 4x4 trail looping around and even connecting with fins n things. soooo the question is... can i follow the book or is that for bikers only? the single track portion is different from the trail but the map doesn't show that as part of the 4x4 trail. are 4x4s allowed to go to the rim?

 

[roktaxi]

in my moab trail book by charles wells, he describes the trail going to the actual rim and then coming back the same way. however, on the sfra map issued to me at the gate, it shows the porcupine 4x4 trail looping around and even connecting with fins n things. soooo the question is... can i follow the book or is that for bikers only? the single track portion is different from the trail but the map doesn't show that as part of the 4x4 trail. are 4x4s allowed to go to the rim?

Porcupine Rim does not connect with any other trail for a 4x4. A bike route loops and connects with Hwy 128 at the mouth of Negro Bill Canyon. It is a single track only beyond the Porcupine Rim overlook. However, you can take some other trails to some overlooks once you're on top. The trail getting to the top is a little lumpy bumpy. The views from up there are stunning.

Marty

Forgot to mention that you can access Porcupine Rim from Fins 'N Things, but from the top there is not other route.

 

[crimsonride]

It's an awesome mountainbike trail. Gnarly as hell. I've seen jeeps on it but I don't know how they get there. It's technical for bikes but I think it would just be more of a scenic drive in a jeep. It's not just for mountainbikers though.

 

[Capt. Picky]

Greetings -

in my moab trail book by charles wells, he describes the trail going to the actual rim and then coming back the same way. however, on the sfra map issued to me at the gate, it shows the porcupine 4x4 trail looping around and even connecting with fins n things. soooo the question is... can i follow the book or is that for bikers only? the single track portion is different from the trail but the map doesn't show that as part of the 4x4 trail. are 4x4s allowed to go to the rim?

The book is OK (for the most part). The actual PR Trail used by 4x4's loops back on itself in the vicinity of Coffee Pot Rock.

Yes, PR Trail can be connected to via the F&T trail, and may be accessed by routes too numerous to mention. Maybe these maps I've prepared below will shed *some* light on it. There is a need to make one more, but it's very time consuming; maybe later.

To access PR Trail from F&T Trail (Click to enlarge Pix)
http://img182.echo.cx/img182/2761/rightturn2ta.jpg
Latter portion of route of PR Trail (From beneath stock tanks - Coffee Pot Rock loop)
http://img182.echo.cx/img182/1628/overviewcoffee7oe.jpg

Google Satellite Maps http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=38.593769,-109.448547&spn=0.110550,0.132866&t=k&hl=en
(You must allow Active Scripting in IE to utilize it. I don't customarily allow that when surfing the WWW. It's OK for this; but make sure you disable, or at least reset to "prompt" in IE's Options > Security Tab > Internet Zone afterwards. Generally speaking, it's ill-advised; you can get Drive-By Spyware/Adware/ and malicious Java Applets if you surf about the WWW at large with Active Scripting and ActiveX enabled in IE. Anyway, that's another subject. *grin*)

Cheers,
Capt. Picky

 

[andy d]

thanks for the info, is there much difference between the 4x4 trail and the rim trail? i have driven the rim trail and we had a great time. i just didn't want to drive the rim trail if it were closed to 4x4s. i didn't even know that there was a porcupine 4x4 trail. however, if i can do both without feeding the fire of the enviro's, then i will do both.

 

[Capt. Picky]

some answers - some questions

Hi -
YW.

thanks for the info, is there much difference between the 4x4 trail and the rim trail? i have driven the rim trail and we had a great time. i just didn't want to drive the rim trail if it were closed to 4x4s. i didn't even know that there was a porcupine 4x4 trail. however, if i can do both without feeding the fire of the enviro's, then i will do both.

The 'Rim Trail"? Which rim trail; Moab Rim or Hellroaring Rim? If you mean you did the Porcupine Rim trail with Bicycles (?), then there is no difference as far as scenery is concerned. (except you get more trail/more scenery to do with a bike than a 4x4)

As far as factors like time and comfort; Bikes win hands-down, as that is one bumpy-a$$ trail, as as a 4-wheeling trail goes, one must exit the same as one enters (more or less). I think it's like 28 miles as run as per description and at least 32 miles just to do just the PR *RIM* round-trip. So, it is really slow (unless you want to beat yourself up) and super-bumpy. I think there's like 2 or 3 sections where you can put it in 3rd-low for about 5 seconds. lol

The trails are open and marked (as open) or permitted as open if not actually 'marked'. Permits exist for all three trails cited; therefore you may do them at your leisure.

Capt. Picky

 

[andy d]

The 'Rim Trail"? Which rim trail; Moab Rim or Hellroaring Rim? If you mean you did the Porcupine Rim trail with Bicycles (?), then there is no difference as far as scenery is concerned. (except you get more trail/more scenery to do with a bike than a 4x4)

i drove the porcupine rim trail to the first overlook in a land rover freelander 2 years ago. we had a lot of fun. this whole thing with the porcupine rim trail and the porcupine 4x4 trail is kind of confusing to me and i hope that i haven't confused anybody else with my vague questions, i am sorry that i have not been more specific. i just want to be sure that i can drive both before i get in trouble.

 

[Capt. Picky]

Hi Andy -

i drove the porcupine rim trail to the first overlook in a land rover freelander 2 years ago.
...this whole thing with the porcupine rim trail and the porcupine 4x4 trail is kind of confusing to me .... i just want to be sure that i can drive both before i get in trouble.

Regardless of the name given, there's but one trail and it's called the Porcupine Rim Trail (.<-- period), as far as I am aware. (it certainly is a 4x4 trail or at least a high-clearance relatively low geared vehicle trail even if it isn't called 'porcupine 4x4 trail' ). If you got to the first overlook of Castle valley via any of the routes I highlighted in the map, you can do the entire trail AFAIAC. It's not a difficult one - except if there's snow on the route beneath the stock-tanks heading up towards the Rim, where it can become quite testy. This I know....lol.

As always, a seat of the pants approach is always best for anyone with any rig on any trail. Know what *you and your rig* are capable of.

Additionally, once on the 'Rim' itself, there are numerous side routes and trails which can connect or dead-end depending on which one(s) you take. When one does a trail for scenery, it doesn't matter which route one takes... they're all good. If OTOH, one wants to "do the trail" - for whatever reason - ... that's an altogether different matter.

Standard disclaimer (Just in case): If in doubt, use Steering wheel/ Low Gear/ Brakes, or Reverse gear if necessary, before all heck breaks loose.

PS - "Guide Books" .... hrrrmmmppphh.

Capt. Picky

 

[andy d]

Regardless of the name given, there's but one trail and it's called the Porcupine Rim Trail (.<-- period), as far as I am aware.

i was referring directly to the sand flat rec area map that shows a color coded trail map and there is a porcupine rim trail and a porcupine 4x4 trail. they tie into each other but they are marked differently and are different colors.

 

[Capt. Picky]

Greets -

i was referring directly to the sand flat rec area map that shows a color coded trail map and there is a porcupine rim trail and a porcupine 4x4 trail. they tie into each other but they are marked differently and are different colors.

Oh, OK. It's been a long time since I've looked at that map. The deal is that a good number of years ago, Bicyclists were getting 'grumpy' about seeing 4x4's on that trail - seems to be a 'proprietary issue' - as that trail is very popular for them.

BLM decided to try to separate the routes as best as possible to avoid any conflict (good luck. lol). Therefore, the Bike trail - called Porcupine Rim Trail - is not the first route as selected for the 4x4 permitted trail. IOW, if Chuck Wells documented his route correctly, then the PR 4x4 route would be what is officially the RR4W and general 'Jeeping' route.

As far as I recollect - and it's been a while - one can 4-by both trails. This might have changed in recent years. Comment follows.

Sidebar: <Rant on>
It's funny how a road or trail which was created by construction equipment or historic long time vehicle use gets 'commandeered' by later user groups (usually, but not always, Bicycles). Then, these smaller/lesser means of conveyance will use a road and then take it over as "their own property" demanding exclusive use. Meanwhile oftentimes, they newly create their own routes - single track, etc. - which no one else can use or even fit on. Same applies for Motorcycles and ATV's. </Rant off>

Capt. Picky

 

[andy d]

thank you capt. picky, that make a lot of sense and answers my question fully. i appreciate the opportunity to pick your brain. andy d

 

[Capt. Picky]

Glad to have been of some help andy d.

Capt. Picky