RME cage match: snorkels!

Kevin B.

Not often wrong. Never quite right.
Moderator
Location
Vehicular limbo
I've never been a fan of snorkels, never wanted one on any of my trucks. Not that I doubt their effectiveness in the water, just that I've never ever been anywhere near a water depth that would require one and don't really intend to either.

But let's talk about this dust thing.

Yoinked these quotes from another thread:
Excuse? Auto/truck/tractor manufactures around the globe offer them OE, ever watch a Dakar desert rally? They are often designed specifically for clean/cool air, not water fording. Thus would be the case for the OE Toyota applications found around the world.

Ha! I always chuckled at folks who saw the factory snorkel on the mog and asked about going through water that deep. While the military did use the snorkel for water, truth be told, I suspect the original design had very little to do with fording rivers and more to do with the heritage as an agricultural implement. Most tractors have a snorkel and usually a cyclone prefilter like a unimog to eliminate dust and dirt from the intake air.

I'd like to see a study done on the difference in dust levels between grill height and fender height when following another truck down the road. I strongly suspect that at a safe follow distance the difference is negligible, but I'm willing to be convinced.

But regarding the prefilter, looking at claims like these, I'm intrigued. I clean off a caked air filter after every trip (or, uh, I should clean off a caked air filter every trip... :ugh:). I would really love to have a good look at a pair of air filters after an identical trip, one from a stock intake and one behind one of these prefilters, or at least hear anecdotal evidence from those running them?
 

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
Having worked on several different types of heavy equipment over the years and mostly in the dust bowl of Arizona, I'm a firm believer in the dust catching prefilter.

I also have a hard time believing that my stock Jeep LJ air filter housing on the inside passenger fender well will collect more dust in it than a snorkel that is wide open to the environment will. Maybe if that snorkel equipped rig is leading the pack and my Jeep got stuck tail gunning.

If my filter housing location is not the best for fresh air, then I suspect the next best place would be just behind the front bumper.
 
Having worked on several different types of heavy equipment over the years and mostly in the dust bowl of Arizona, I'm a firm believer in the dust catching prefilter.

I also have a hard time believing that my stock Jeep LJ air filter housing on the inside passenger fender well will collect more dust in it than a snorkel that is wide open to the environment will. Maybe if that snorkel equipped rig is leading the pack and my Jeep got stuck tail gunning.

If my filter housing location is not the best for fresh air, then I suspect the next best place would be just behind the front
Kurt just took his shirt off!
 

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
Well there's really no such thing as cold air, but I for sure believe in colder air, or at least not as hot. The HOT air inside my engine bay has cooked several hot dogs and brauts over the years on trail runs. The 100 degree air outside will condense far more than the 200 (?) under the hood, thus providing an opportunity to make more power. Ice water in an air to water intercooler is a proven fact at the race track.
 

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
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Mic drop? 🤷‍♂️
 
I'd be interested in the results of a study. If you want some evidence, though, take a look at any 10 dozers or farm tractors out there. Those cyclone prefilters on all of them cost money. I don't think they would buy them if they hadn't been proven effective in dusty environs. Maybe the bigger question is: does a snorkel without the cyclone prefilter do anything?
 

jeeper

Currently without Jeep
Location
So Jo, Ut
@Tonkaman was a few miles down a flooded road in his old tacoma and got stranded due to water splashing into his air box. I had to go tow him all the way out and dry out the air box before the truck would run again. #ibelieveinsnorkels
 
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Kevin B.

Not often wrong. Never quite right.
Moderator
Location
Vehicular limbo
@Tonkaman was a few miles down a flooded road in his old tacoma and got stranded due to water splashing into his air box. I had to go tow him all the way out and dry out the air box before the truck would run again. #ibelieveinsnorkles
That gen Tacoma/4Runner has the air intake in the fender well. I've never understood that design choice, and I could totally see a snorkel for water on a rig like that before I'd see it on a truck with the intake positioned high in the grill.
 

Kevin B.

Not often wrong. Never quite right.
Moderator
Location
Vehicular limbo
I'd be interested in the results of a study. If you want some evidence, though, take a look at any 10 dozers or farm tractors out there. Those cyclone prefilters on all of them cost money. I don't think they would buy them if they hadn't been proven effective in dusty environs. Maybe the bigger question is: does a snorkel without the cyclone prefilter do anything?
So there's a lot of things out there that people do because everyone has done it, no way are farmers immune to that. I'm not saying they're wrong, just that I'd like to see some objective evidence from a source other than the companies that make them.

Also, yes, does a snorkel without the prefilter provide any cleaner air? And if those prefilters work, would one of them fitted under the hood provide as much air cleaning as one on a stack?
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
I'd be interested in the results of a study. If you want some evidence, though, take a look at any 10 dozers or farm tractors out there. Those cyclone prefilters on all of them cost money. I don't think they would buy them if they hadn't been proven effective in dusty environs. Maybe the bigger question is: does a snorkel without the cyclone prefilter do anything?
Tractors and farm equipment filter housings catch a LOT of dirt. I’d assume construction equipment would be the same or worse? A farmer loses high quality soil if they make lots of dust. However that doesn’t mean that while discing, baling or harrowing, there’s not a LOT of dust going into the air. Usually that’s behind the tractor but the wrong wind, you realize it’s not a dust free situation
 

Kevin B.

Not often wrong. Never quite right.
Moderator
Location
Vehicular limbo
^ I can see a couple problems with that's set up that could explain the difference. But yeah, still good anecdotal evidence.
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
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Vendor
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Sandy, Ut
I’d like to see a lot of different studies done... wish it were as easy as starting a thread, opening my mouth wide and waiting for the spoon to come in. Super-millennials these days... :D

I don’t have a study to show you. I have years of ‘anecdotal’ evidence based on driving with and without snorkels around the globe. I’ve driven brand new Tacoma’s/4Runners with and without the OE raised air intake (not water tight, literally just for dust) day after day on super dusty trails, we were cleaning filters each night. The snorkeled ones absolutely stayed cleaner and frankly didn’t need cleaning. We ran snorkels on the Hilux’s in Greenland, the engine bays would get packed tight with snow kicked up by the tires and ground. The snorkel intakes were quick/easy to keep clear.

Doubt the ambient air at roof level is cooler than air sourced under the hood? Are we really going to argue that? The hottest recorded air temp on earth is 134*, under-hood temps can easily beat that by 50% particularly on engine top mounted air cleaners. We can easily see 10-15* cooler IAT temps at pre and post snorkel install on a newer Cruiser. With some quick googling, I’m seeing plenty of ‘anecdotal’ results others have shared showing this exact phenomenon, some reporting 50% lower intake air temps. I’m a but shocked that this is surprising to anyone? Your bombing down a dusty dirt road, would you rather breath air taken from the wheel well or in the engine bay or at the roof line? It may be helpful to spend a few minutes watching vehicles bombing down dusty roads, you’ll see this over and over. If your vehicle pulls it’s air thru the front grill, this likely won’t apply to you so much, many Toyota’s pull via the wheel well.

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Fender air vs roofline air.

”Safe follow distance”? Why not say ”safe speed” too? :D Many risks and vehicle needs would be mitigated if we all slowed down or spaced out miles, why do that when OE’s and aftermarkets have provided us workable solutions? Just because you have clean air in front of you doesn’t mean you’re pulling clean air through the wheel well, see my photo above, I’m not sure how much clearer I could illustrate it?

Do prefilters and cyclonic tops help? Absolutely, hence why OE’s (Toyota for example) and aftermarkets (SafarI Snorkel for example) have them. If you need ultimate dust protection, run em, I have.

We absolutely wish we could easily (and within rules) mount a snorkel on the Canguro 200 we desert race. We suffer from immense air filter issues (running a large in cab dry filter, anything fit under the hood wouldn’t make it pit to pit). This is the exact reason you’ll see so many Dakar Rally vehicles sporting them, they expect zero water for fordings in Saudi Arabia.

As for the experience @Tonkaman had, it’s a common occurrence. Some with far worse outcomes. Many OE’s including most modern Toyota‘s pull their air from the fender mounted air box. With most popular Toyota models its right behind the headlight, it’s not high, it’s not safe from water and it’s definitely choked with dust churning in the wheel well and/or engine bay.

This YouTube gent was on a Toyota media drive and wanted to compare filters each night as we cleaned them. Tacomas with raised air intakes had consistently cleaner filters each evening. Anecdotal, sure. But this dude doesn’t give two shits about snorkels... perhaps his findings are less anecdotal than mine.


At the end of the day, if you don’t think you’ll have a need for a snorkel or raised air intake, simple, don’t get one. The same logic goes for lift kits, bypass shocks, winches, lockers, ham radios, USB outlets, air compressors, spare tires, etc. It may be a ‘must have’ for one person and a waste of time/money for the next. If you don’t spend days in dust/water, a snorkel is a waste of money imo, if you don’t outdrive your Rancho’s, bypass shocks are a waste of money imo.
 
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85CUCVKRAWLER

Active Member
Location
Tooele
Well there's really no such thing as cold air, but I for sure believe in colder air, or at least not as hot. The HOT air inside my engine bay has cooked several hot dogs and brauts over the years on trail runs. The 100 degree air outside will condense far more than the 200 (?) under the hood, thus providing an opportunity to make more power. Ice water in an air to water intercooler is a proven fact at the race track.
Race engines using intercoolers is a totally different scenario.

The difference of oxygen per weight @100 deg F road temp vs @140 deg F engine bay temp is minimal. It's also irrelevant as modern engines are EFI equipped generally with MAF sensors monitoring input and O2 sensors monitoring output.

So "cold" air or not. The motor is going to adjust the inputs regardless of whatever PVC you have glued to your airbox.
 
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