Rock Crawling

[Bart]

I may have a different point of view on the whole "competitor" thing. Personally I've wheeled with a lot of guys that can really drive, but never had the resources (time and money) to compete. I mean these guys can drive with the best of them.

I think it really needs to be run what you brung and have classes of vehicles to decide who you compete against . If I'm in a comp buggy, I should compete against comp rigs. If I'm in my street legal TJ, I should compete against similar street legal rigs.

Maybe guys that are on the circut with current comp rigs could only run exhibition, but I wouldn't seperate them from there class. I would think people would want to see how they really stack up to other people. It's all for fun anyway.

 

[notajeep]

I'll drop $100 to compete. But what about those of us (me) that have a non-comp buggy.
I'll be bringing the toyota too. :greg:

 

[Tacoma]

Well put, Bartemus.

I may have a different point of view on the whole "competitor" thing. Personally I've wheeled with a lot of guys that can really drive, but never had the resources (time and money) to compete. I mean these guys can drive with the best of them.

I think it really needs to be run what you brung and have classes of vehicles to decide who you compete against . If I'm in a comp buggy, I should compete against comp rigs. If I'm in my street legal TJ, I should compete against similar street legal rigs.

Maybe guys that are on the circut with current comp rigs could only run exhibition, but I wouldn't seperate them from there class. I would think people would want to see how they really stack up to other people. It's all for fun anyway.

 

[waynehartwig]

I'll drop $100 to compete. But what about those of us (me) that have a non-comp buggy.
I'll be bringing the toyota too. :greg:

I still think the buggies should all stay together. Buggy drivers are going to drive way different than someone that has to drive their comp rig ~1k miles home.

 

[Budtheshark]

Just thinking


So how much is insurance going to cost for an event like this? Can we get it from the fair grounds? For the Pro's as some of you guys call us. Why not have one class for all of the guys that run UROC, Werock, XRRA, & Prorock events. The only thing different from Ben Hanks rig and ours is the tire size, so everyone that fall into the pro class has to run 37-inch tires. Use the Pro teams to promote the event. Have them come out and sale their team shirts and things like that. Then each team will give a % back to the event charity. The Pro guys can cover their own expenses from their team sponsors and sale of the team apparel maybe they could even go to their sponsor and get them to put up award money for the pro class. This way the Pro’s are not taking anything away from the little guys. Maybe don’t charge the fans to come out to the event but make money off of the sale of event apparel, food and stuff like that. Like Craig had said maybe we could get the spectators to give donations to the fair grounds.


For the event format I would like to see it run more like a rally format event. Require each driver to make timed attempt at an arduous cross-country course leaving individually at regular intervals. The course could consist of rough tracks, steep banks and tight turns on various surfaces. One thing I have not seen in my 5 years of competition in rock crawling is an event that has everything we see out four wheeling like rocks, sand washes & water. There are a few other groups out there trying to put the same thing to gather for place like cedar city, Vernal, a few other cool places for 2008. Maybe we can all work to gather to make the sport fun again. I am willing to do anything to help get it going.



Bill

 

[ChestonScout]

Price has addressed this, I think. They have a street legal class and OHV. Buggies are OHV and compete amongst themselves.

Prices king challenge changed A LOT this past year Wayne. We had sponsored rigs in the Street legal class running without windshields???? The Modified had fully sponsored competition buggies in it????? I thought thats why there was an open class. The rules were stretched way past the limits and it seemed like the only ones getting away with it were teams that had donated money. There are a lot of issues that need to be addressed before I decide to go again this year. Getting a 20 yard start to go through the mud and the tire pit??? Come on guys. There is a starting line for a reason.

I dont think its the clubs fault. In the past...the competitors have followed the rules on their own. As the event keeps growing....the rule book needs to grow as well. It is VERY hard to run an event like that and I think it is up to the drivers to do a lot of it on their own.

Instead of the drivers picking what class they want to be in.......I think there should be a comittee of judges that goes over the rigs and assigns them a class. I know they have a tech inspection and moved SOME people accordingly. Full buggies with tube frames no matter tire size should get thrown in the open class. The modified can stay the same but the rules need to be enforced. Basically its determined by tire size and if its licensed and insured. Street legal SHOULD be obvious. If you dont drive it on the street everyday.....Enter in the modified!! I dont have a problem competing against high dollar rigs or even sponsored rigs as long as they are in the class they belong in.

Having said that.....I would be interested in watching/competing in a older style comp. Just as long as there are different classes so that the competition would be fair. Would there be a place in your comp for a full width axle, full size Scout?

 

[ChestonScout]

Just thinking


For the Pro's as some of you guys call us. Why not have one class for all of the guys that run UROC, Werock, XRRA, & Prorock events. The only thing different from Ben Hanks rig and ours is the tire size, so everyone that fall into the pro class has to run 37-inch tires. Use the Pro teams to promote the event. Have them come out and sale their team shirts and things like that. Then each team will give a % back to the event charity. The Pro guys can cover their own expenses from their team sponsors and sale of the team apparel maybe they could even go to their sponsor and get them to put up award money for the pro class. This way the Pro’s are not taking anything away from the little guys. Maybe don’t charge the fans to come out to the event but make money off of the sale of event apparel, food and stuff like that. Like Craig had said maybe we could get the spectators to give donations to the fair grounds.
/QUOTE]

EXACTLY!!! But I dont think having a $5 cover charge would scare anyone away from watching the event and could raise a lot of extra money

 

[waynehartwig]

I had no idea Price's even changed so much last year; I'm almost glad I didn't come :-\

I like BudTheSharks idea, too...

 

[Craig S]

Prices king challenge changed A LOT this past year Wayne. We had sponsored rigs in the Street legal class running without windshields???? The Modified had fully sponsored competition buggies in it????? I thought thats why there was an open class. The rules were stretched way past the limits and it seemed like the only ones getting away with it were teams that had donated money. There are a lot of issues that need to be addressed before I decide to go again this year. Getting a 20 yard start to go through the mud and the tire pit??? Come on guys. There is a starting line for a reason.

I dont think its the clubs fault. In the past...the competitors have followed the rules on their own. As the event keeps growing....the rule book needs to grow as well. It is VERY hard to run an event like that and I think it is up to the drivers to do a lot of it on their own.

Instead of the drivers picking what class they want to be in.......I think there should be a comittee of judges that goes over the rigs and assigns them a class. I know they have a tech inspection and moved SOME people accordingly. Full buggies with tube frames no matter tire size should get thrown in the open class. The modified can stay the same but the rules need to be enforced. Basically its determined by tire size and if its licensed and insured. Street legal SHOULD be obvious. If you dont drive it on the street everyday.....Enter in the modified!! I dont have a problem competing against high dollar rigs or even sponsored rigs as long as they are in the class they belong in.

Having said that.....I would be interested in watching/competing in a older style comp. Just as long as there are different classes so that the competition would be fair. Would there be a place in your comp for a full width axle, full size Scout?

There should be a spot for everybody to compete, the more the better (even Scouts). How does street stock, modified, super modified and unlimited sound for classes? Street stock would be for the street legal rigs. Modified would be for two seat front engine rectangular frame vehicles that don't make the street legal designation. Super modified would be all the two seat buggies with round tube frames. Unlimited would be for moon buggies. I wouldn't expect to see any moon buggies, but it could happen. The details of the classes would need to be figured out. Remember, this is for fun and charity. Also input from everbody is needed.

 

[Tacoma]

I like your proposal.

Street legal would include some pretty built rigs, but it would still be down to skill. I can dig it.

 

[waynehartwig]

There should be a spot for everybody to compete, the more the better (even Scouts). How does street stock, modified, super modified and unlimited sound for classes? Street stock would be for the street legal rigs. Modified would be for two seat front engine rectangular frame vehicles that don't make the street legal designation. Super modified would be all the two seat buggies with round tube frames. Unlimited would be for moon buggies. I wouldn't expect to see any moon buggies, but it could happen. The details of the classes would need to be figured out. Remember, this is for fun and charity. Also input from everbody is needed.

Also, when you say street legal - by who's definition? The state in which it's registered? Or state of Utah? Because my rig is 99% street legal for the state of WA, all I'm missing is full fender flares to cover 100% of the tire width. And I'm sitting on 39" tires, 6" of lift and full width - you saw my rig at the Richfield thing...

I guess my point is you will need to have a standard that everyone will need to follow. Even in Utah 33" tires could be illegal and make ones rig NOT street legal - making most trail rigs not street legal by definition... The last year I competed in Price, they wanted lights, windshield, etc., but didn't care about outside mirrors (TJ doors off), mud flaps or fender flares.

 

[ChestonScout]

There should be a spot for everybody to compete, the more the better (even Scouts). How does street stock, modified, super modified and unlimited sound for classes? Street stock would be for the street legal rigs. Modified would be for two seat front engine rectangular frame vehicles that don't make the street legal designation. Super modified would be all the two seat buggies with round tube frames. Unlimited would be for moon buggies. I wouldn't expect to see any moon buggies, but it could happen. The details of the classes would need to be figured out. Remember, this is for fun and charity. Also input from everbody is needed.

That sounds good to me. The charity part of it does change a lot. It doesnt matter if you win or lose or break. All the money is still going to the same place and everyone will have fun.

Count me in for competing

 

[Craig S]

Also, when you say street legal - by who's definition? The state in which it's registered? Or state of Utah? Because my rig is 99% street legal for the state of WA, all I'm missing is full fender flares to cover 100% of the tire width. And I'm sitting on 39" tires, 6" of lift and full width - you saw my rig at the Richfield thing...

I guess my point is you will need to have a standard that everyone will need to follow. Even in Utah 33" tires could be illegal and make ones rig NOT street legal - making most trail rigs not street legal by definition... The last year I competed in Price, they wanted lights, windshield, etc., but didn't care about outside mirrors (TJ doors off), mud flaps or fender flares.

Street legal should be a current registration, current insurance card, current license plate for the vehicle for the state it's from. Any other ideas?

 

[BCGPER]

In my eyes, street stock would also include:

Full bodied, minor trimming allowed for tire clearance only (no boattail, ect)

OEM axles, internal modifications only (SAS allowed with OEM axle)

Stock wheel base, any desired lift, 35" max tire

Also, I think doors and windshields should not be required just to keep body damage potential to a minimum.

 

[I Lean]

In my eyes, street stock would also include:

Full bodied, minor trimming allowed for tire clearance only (no boattail, ect)

OEM axles, internal modifications only (SAS allowed with OEM axle)

Stock wheel base, any desired lift, 35" max tire

Also, I think doors and windshields should not be required just to keep body damage potential to a minimum.

I'd agree with most of that, except for the stock wheelbase part--cuz that'd make my little 4Runner not qualify for "street stock" anymore. (have to move the front axle forward to clear the firewall)

 

[BCGPER]

Mine was the same way, I forgot about that little Toy issue. Maybe within an inch or so of stock?

There has to be some limitation, I don't think a Jeep (or whatever) that's streched 6" or 8" should be considered "stock".

Along those same lines, "bobbing" (another Toyota favorite) would have to be addressed.

I'd agree with most of that, except for the stock wheelbase part--cuz that'd make my little 4Runner not qualify for "street stock" anymore. (have to move the front axle forward to clear the firewall)

 

[Jinx]

In my eyes, street stock would also include:

Full bodied, minor trimming allowed for tire clearance only (no boattail, ect)

OEM axles, internal modifications only (SAS allowed with OEM axle)

Stock wheel base, any desired lift, 35" max tire

Also, I think doors and windshields should not be required just to keep body damage potential to a minimum.

my scrambler is close to this- full bodied, stock wheel base (Almost), except the axle and tire thing...

The only change I would make to this is the axle part. a 8.8 or 44 should be ok to replace the a dana 35... this ammendment will cut down on the recovery portion of things..

 

[BCGPER]

44 is OEM Jeep, so I'd say fine on that one. 8.8 isn't, so you're just SOL.

That's a tough call, where do you draw the line?

 

[Jinx]

44 is OEM Jeep, so I'd say fine on that one. 8.8 isn't, so you're just SOL.

That's a tough call, where do you draw the line?

I know what you mean, yota ifs sucks, jeep dana 35s suck...

If you are the organizer, you want people to have fun, run against people who are similiarly set up,

but as a competitor you want to show up ready to compete and have breakdowns limited.

Side note:

stock by state sucks, Colorado screws that up...

and to be honest Daily Driver/stock class comps are pretty boring to watch if not set up right, probably fun for drivers. If you have haven't seen a stock class run on a mod line or slightly changed mod line its lame.

 

[waynehartwig]

Street legal should be a current registration, current insurance card, current license plate for the vehicle for the state it's from. Any other ideas?

Not real sure. But keep in mind I'm street legal with 39's. That's not fair to the other 'street legals' running 35's.

So maybe do some research in the UHP handbook and setup actual law guidelines. Your in Utah, so make it legal for Utah only.

But again, if you are making classes to put all ~95" WB rigs with 35" tires together, then this won't be an issue. Just if you do a all street legal class. I really liked that idea...That will keep it all fair to everyone. Obvioulsy you don't 120 different classes, so there will need to be some overlap. But I think you can keep it pretty darn fair for everyone this way.