Roll Cage Design

[Mug]

Less of "look at me I own the fabricator's thesaurus" and more real world cage stuff could turn this into an interesting thread.

Erik D lux posted some of the most interesting cage testing pics I've ever seen. Thanks for those.

TRIANGLES, TRIANGLES, TRIANGLES!

My "real world" take on this kind of stuff is: If you see a squarish looking opening somewhere near where people will be sitting in your rig, put a diagonal through it. Door openings, the B pillar area or over the occupants' heads, etc.

 

[jdub]

Yeah, Boo on the negativity.

I was inspired on the cage pics.

I'm in for some good cage pics, I'm looking to add to my Scrambler cage and want to see what works and what to avoid. No "it shoulda" crap.

I agree with the real world, realistic approach. I was very impressed with the cage work coming from all the vendors and some home brewed rigs had some good things going.

I rolled a CJ5 end over end about 7 times to where the motor, chassis, and body all came apart and the stock roll bar did it's job keeping a flopped jeep away from it's occupants.

 

[solidfrontaxle]

Slcpunk, are you going to sit there and tell us we're doing it wrong, or are you going to educate us? I'd personally like to know how to optimize a cage design since its soooo easy.

 

[slcpunk74]

It is rather easy to look at a cage or vehicle and visualize what a good cage should do. Like I have been saying dead tubes are lame, they might get it done but they are not hard to avoid.

Load path is another thing that is not hard to follow. Just look at what would get the impact and make sure as it follows it wont hit a dead tube or a weak point in the cage.

I never said I didn't fab and I never said I did. My point in saying this was that any semi-smart guy can design and if they can weld and fab they can easily build a proper cage.

 

[slcpunk74]

You actually want to learn?
Well short of me posting a bunch of pics and taking a lot of time doing something that you guys will just say is stupid I will just post a link that helped me to learn some of the terms and ideas.
http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/rollcage.htm

Just as phor said triangles are your friends and so are x's. A v or x for the roof instead of just senseless squares that make for a good place to mount an overhead console.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...Like I have been saying dead tubes are lame, they might get it done but they are not hard to avoid.

And like we have been saying... show, don't tell. Quit tossing around the buzzwords and show us some good examples of these integrated into a recreational 4x4 build. We can all find links to a killer desert chassis or buggy build, but your comparison to say the Jeeps at the T-Plus show are completely apples and oranges. A desert rig doesn't have 4-5 or more passengers, a desert rig doesn't have a full dash. A desert rig doesn't need full operational doors that a child can climb in and out of. A desert rig doesn't have a set criteria driver and passenger size, sometimes you have a tall passenger, sometimes you have a midget. The variables are completely different and for some having a console above their head is important and something that has to be built around. Speaking of load path. What is the load path for a vehicle that in 90% of the time is going to roll over its side, extremely slowly in most cases and mabey 10% of the time is going to go over forward or backward, and likely 75% of those times will be a single roll and never more than 2-3 rolls. Now don't post a pic of a desert car that is designed to barrel roll 7-10 times at 100mph through the sand. Apples and oranges.

...Load path is another thing that is not hard to follow. Just look at what would get the impact and make sure as it follows it wont hit a dead tube or a weak point in the cage.

Examples please.

... My point in saying this was that any semi-smart guy can design and if they can weld and fab they can easily build a proper cage.

Ah, I thought the point was buzzwords. I'm out then

 

[Chevycrew]

Im guessing the perfect cage, would not affect: interior space, the ability to get in or out, center of gravity, etc, etc, etc.


Compromises must be made...

 

[Green Leader]

I hope this isn't over this has been very interesting to read.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

For anyone really interested in chassis design, there are a handful of chassis engineering books you can purchase or possible even check out at places like the U of U. I know we had a fleet of misc chassis books we referenced during our design. The problem is none of them deal with the recreational rig, for example joints at the firewall, roof structures, engine mounting, etc are all difficult to integrate into a daily driver with a sheetmetal building and rigid ladder frame.

 

[heinie_21]

it seems to me that cage threads are often "warmer" discussions haha!

 

[jdub]

I want more, I want a cage in a convertible jeep that can also support a soft top, deleting the soft top bars. Doors mounted to them or any other crazy creature comforts like handles and storage. Why not have it hold wind shield and wiper motors without it looking like a ton of poo-pipe?

 

[Green Leader]

Ok someone has to say it......Tonight on RME we have a really special treat in the blue corner with what seems to be the support of most RMEr's in the discussion is CRUISEROUTFIT.....and in the red corner seemingly standing alone with, but with back up from another website cage build thread SLCPUNK74......Now ladies and gentlemen let the CAGE MATCH begin...........in this case CONTINUE!!!

 

[slcpunk74]

Ok someone has to say it......Tonight on RME we have a really special treat in the blue corner with what seems to be the support of most RMEr's in the discussion is CRUISEROUTFIT.....and in the red corner seemingly standing alone with, but with back up from another website cage build thread SLCPUNK74......Now ladies and gentlemen let the CAGE MATCH begin...........in this case CONTINUE!!!

LOL I think by no means are we fighting here. I think it's more me against the wheeling community.

 

[SAMI]

LOL I think by no means are we fighting here. I think it's more me against the wheeling community.

Does that excite you? Is that part of the "SLCPUNK74" persona?

 

[mbryson]

LOL I think by no means are we fighting here. I think it's more me against the wheeling community.

I'm just trying to learn. I'm still waiting for your comments on design flaws and examples, though.

 

[slcpunk74]

Does that excite you? Is that part of the "SLCPUNK74" persona?

If it is me against the anti-reason crew then it would match my persona.

When I started talking about this in another thread I was simply saying that people should think about what they are building. I think there is way more to learn from the desert scene then most guys admit. I know wheelers will "usually" roll very slow but a poor design at 5mph is an even worse design at 25mph rolling down a hill sideways. I don't need to go snapping pics of jeep cages in parking lots and then paint how the tube should be then post it up here just to satisfy you. I did not start this thread and I am not the one that is telling everyone to go out and build a roll bar that has no general ideas of any sort and expect it to save your life.

You guys get up tight when I mention poor cage design like a bear with its cubs.

 

[slcpunk74]

I'm just trying to learn. I'm still waiting for your comments on design flaws and examples, though.

Really that link I posted pretty much sums up the basics. It says what not to do and what you should do. The link also is very general which makes it easy to translate to any vehicle and it is also geared towards wheeling.

 

[SAMI]

You guys get up tight when I mention poor cage design like a bear with its cubs.

I think it's more the following comments that stirred up the community, rather than actually just talking about cage designs..

Yeah if you go out to a show like the alljeep show lat weekend you will see exactly what I mean when I say that most wheeling guys have not a clue about cage design.

Apples and oranges..? Im going to say most and until I see load path being recongnized in 3/5 wheeling style cages I will never say some.

I never said I didn't fab and I never said I did. My point in saying this was that any semi-smart guy can design and if they can weld and fab they can easily build a proper cage.

 

[TJDukit]

This is fun.

 

[SAMI]

By what i've learned in this thread, the Jeep below could use some... "triangulation".. Right?