Spring Rates opinions

[bamacpl]

Now that I’ve reclaimed my account from ISIS

I was initially running
Front-175# 10” over 250# 12”
Rear- 175# 10” over 250# 12”

I switched the mains to 300# 14” & I am getting a lil more body roll than I like.
My question is.....Is it acceptable to limit the body roll with the crossover collar(basically not getting full use out of my tenders) or should I get heavier tender springs?

 

[I Lean]

I think using the dual-rate stops is absolutely a valid tool to use for that. If you notice your total travel being limited, or the ride gets too harsh, then try something else. If for no other reason, try adjusting the stops because it's free.

 

[bamacpl]

Thanks for the advice

 

[Ashcat]

You have dual rate coil overs and paid a lot of money for them. Use them! You do not have a tender spring. You have primary and secondary coils.

If you notice more roll, it’s because you went way beyond the limits of the spring rate split. Now those 300 lbs secondary springs don’t give and the primary takes all the travel.

If you plan on riding on the sliders, you’ll hate yourself. You have dual rate coil overs........ did I just hear an echo?

What is the shock stroke? You’re already way out of whack with mix match springs. It is only advisable in most cases to increase the secondary spring by 2”. ie 14” shock, 14” primary, 16” secondary. I will not elaborate further for other reasons. Besides, KISS

It’s too common that everyone bandaids their problems with springs. Springs only support the vehicle and are not a tuning device in most every typical case. People believe they’re “cheap” and you don’t have to get your hands dirty or actually know what you’re doing when it comes to shock tuning. Learning about valving and how to service your shocks is invaluable. Shims are cheap, ignorance is not....or the outrageous price hack shock tuners charge. Lol

 

[bryson]

There's a tender coil on that coilover... But, the tender is only the small, light-rate coil at the top of the stack that keeps everything seated at full extension. The tender doesn't (and shouldn't) have any effect on ride or handling.

How did you increase your spring rate, and end up with more body roll?

 

[bamacpl]

There's a tender coil on that coilover... But, the tender is only the small, light-rate coil at the top of the stack that keeps everything seated at full extension. The tender doesn't (and shouldn't) have any effect on ride or handling.

How did you increase your spring rate, and end up with more body roll?

I am running a triple rate setup.
-Main(silver)
-tender(blue)
-& the 0 rate flat helper coil that keeps the springs tight when the shock is fully extended
With the 250# 12” setup I had the crossover ring adjusted so that the tender wasn’t being fully compressed. That’s why I switched to the 300# 14” mains thinking I could bask off the crossover nut & utilize 2” more of my tenders to soak the smaller bumps, but all it did was basically give me 2” of body roll

 

[bamacpl]

This is the exact setup I am running. I was calling the “crossover nut”— Billa Vista calls it a “stop ring”
In the 1st pic you can see the 0 rate “helper coil” smashed just under the “top spring seat” where you adjust ride height/preload the tender spring

 

[Gravy]

The flat rates are too low a rate to do anything other than keep spring tension. Which you don't really need since you've got a 2" longer main than travel length. I mean you could certainly run like a triple rate setup but you'll have problems setting your preload with your already long springs.

Doesn't Zukyizzy recommend not running rates more than 75# or 100# difference??

Spring for weight, valve for control.

 

[bamacpl]

The flat rates are too low a rate to do anything other than keep spring tension. Which you don't really need since you've got a 2" longer main than travel length. I mean you could certainly run like a triple rate setup but you'll have problems setting your preload with your already long springs.

Doesn't Zukyizzy recommend not running rates more than 75# or 100# difference??

Spring for weight, valve for control.

Yes, the only purpose of the flat zero rate helper spring is keep the springs tight at full extension ....that is all. As for them being on there, once I am at full droop they do extend & do their job even with a 14” main spring.

 

[Pike2350]

Ive read through tge soring tech thread on pirate pretty intensely... mainly for this same reason. They recommend that you try and keep your spring rates under 100# difference. This is good for more "go fast stuff" IMHO. Many of the custom stock packages for Jeep have rated around 150-175# difference.

The big thing they do purpose is tho use the springs to set rise height and valving for control.
Based on they formula they use you had an overall rate of 102.9lbs initially. With the 300# main you switched to 110.5. With the longer spring I would assume you backed off the preload to keep the ride height the same? Let's assume you had 6" off shaft showing initially and 2"of preload. That means you're corner weights would've been 819lbs. If you wanted the same 6" of shaft showing (same ride height) you'd have to only have 1.4" of preload. To me that's not enough to change the body roll... and in fact you should be hitting the stop collar sooner.

Did you adjust the stop collar at all? How much room was there between the stop collar and slide initially? I usually only have about .5-1" until the slide hits and it goes to main spring.

 

[bamacpl]

Ive read through tge soring tech thread on pirate pretty intensely... mainly for this same reason. They recommend that you try and keep your spring rates under 100# difference. This is good for more "go fast stuff" IMHO. Many of the custom stock packages for Jeep have rated around 150-175# difference.

The big thing they do purpose is tho use the springs to set rise height and valving for control.
Based on they formula they use you had an overall rate of 102.9lbs initially. With the 300# main you switched to 110.5. With the longer spring I would assume you backed off the preload to keep the ride height the same? Let's assume you had 6" off shaft showing initially and 2"of preload. That means you're corner weights would've been 819lbs. If you wanted the same 6" of shaft showing (same ride height) you'd have to only have 1.4" of preload. To me that's not enough to change the body roll... and in fact you should be hitting the stop collar sooner.

Did you adjust the stop collar at all? How much room was there between the stop collar and slide initially? I usually only have about .5-1" until the slide hits and it goes to main spring.

Very good info!!! Originally I only had about 3” of shaft showing & now about 5”. I think I may back off a lil on the preload & the stop collar & see how it feels.

 

[I Lean]

If I'm reading it right, with your old springs you were resting on the stop at ride height? Since your zero-rate tender was not compressed...so effectively you had a 250 lb/in spring rate. Now with your new coils, you have room to the stop, so you're at 110lb/in. That would totally explain your body roll. It probably rides nicer now too, right?

Maybe a swaybar is a better answer for you.

 

[Ashcat]

There's a tender coil on that coilover... But, the tender is only the small, light-rate coil at the top of the stack that keeps everything seated at full extension. The tender doesn't (and shouldn't) have any effect on ride or handling.

How did you increase your spring rate, and end up with more body roll?

Picture was too blurry when I looked before. Yes, I see the “tender” spring.