SRP Permits

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
There has been some discussion on what the requirements are for permits with the new RMP's. Scott Wheeler, who is responsible for the San Rafael Motorized Travel Map, spent some time disecting the RMP's for Price and Moab and this is what he came up with. I have also attached a copy of the State BLM handbook for group permits.



WHEN IS AN SRP FOR ORGANIZED GROUPS REQUIRED IN THE PRICE
FIELD OFFICE?

There are no Bureauwide or statewide thresholds based on group size, dictating whether an organized
group permit is required. Such thresholds or other criteria for organized group permits are established
through land use planning. Plans should also identify areas or sites where large, organized groups are
appropriate and where they are not.
In the Price Field Office, organized groups numbering above the following group size criteria, gathering
at a single location for more than 2 hours,2 are required to contact the BLM before their event to
determine if an SRP would be required.

Group Size Criteria
In WSAs–More than 14 people
All other areas–More than 24 people, unless and until an individual SRMA Plan prescribes a different
group size
After reviewing the activity and location with the organizers, BLM will determine whether or not a permit
is required. If a permit is not required, BLM may document this determination in the form of a Letter of
Agreement. The factors BLM will use to determine whether a permit is required are shown in
Table J-4.


And the requirements for the Moab Field Office:

REC-50
Issue and manage special recreation permits for a wide variety of uses to enhance outdoor
recreational opportunities, provide opportunities for private enterprise, manage user-group
interaction, and limit the impacts of such uses upon natural and cultural resources. Organized
group permits required for groups with 25 or more vehicles (one driver/vehicle).

ACEC-7
Ten Mile Wash (4,980 acres) will be designated as an ACEC.
Special Management: To protect the relevant and important values of natural systems
(riparian/wetlands), wildlife, cultural resources and natural hazards, the following management
prescriptions will apply:
Prioritize Ten Mile for Class III cultural inventory.
Prioritize Ten Mile as a scientific research area.
Grazing will be allowed on a limited basis in Ten Mile Canyon downstream from Dripping
Springs, with changes subject to future monitoring and conformance with Standards for
Rangeland Health.
Prioritize area for riparian restoration.
Restrict camping and campfires to designated sites at Dripping Spring.
Motorized and mechanized travel limited to designated routes.
No competitive events.
Establish speed limits.
Reroute designated road around the wetlands south of the cattle guard near Dripping Springs.
Restrict vehicle access at the Green River; designate a parking area at the Green River.
Permits for motorized recreational use may be required if monitoring indicates long-term
damage.
Require permits for groups greater than 25 vehicles.



This is out of the State BLM Hand Book for SRPs

2. An Organized Group Activity permit is required for group outdoor recreation activities or
events which are neither commercial nor competitive. The authorized officer determines when a
permit is required based on planning decisions, resource concerns, user conflicts, public health
and safety, and/or the need for resource monitoring. Examples: family reunions and organized
four-wheel drive events. Contact the appropriate BLM office to determine if a SRP is required
for your event (see page 4).

More out of the State handbook

Bureau of Land Management’s SRP Policy
All commercial, competitive, organized group activity and event use, and special area use on
Utah’s Public Land meeting the above criteria must be authorized by a SRP before it occurs.
SRPs are issued at the discretion of the Authorized Officer who may, at any time and without
prior notice, choose not to issue permits for certain activities or use areas. Such decisions could
be based on a variety of factors such as planning decisions, potential resource impacts, existing
outfitters in the same area, overcrowding, past poor performance and others.

The Consequences of Operating Without a Permit
Operating without a required SRP or participating in a non-permitted event or activity that
requires a SRP is a Federal Class A criminal misdemeanor punishable by a fine of up to
$100,000 and 12 months incarceration.

 

Greg

I run a tight ship... wreck
Admin
That's really good info Paul, thanks for taking the time to share with us. I did some looking for that type of info on the BLM website awhile ago and couldn't find much. It's hard to plan when they don't have the information easily accessible.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
Thank Scott Wheeler. I am just passing on the info he gained from wading through the RMP and deciphering it. We all owe Scott and a few others a lot of thanks for the work they have done over the last 25 years keeping an eye on the Price field office and working to keep things open. I know if it was not for them, I would not be as involved as I am.
 
Very nice to have a single page of text to summarize this issue.

I wish they'd been involved in the loss of all the Price area technical 4x4 routes during the last RMP. The roads we ran 100+ registered participants on during our Fall Ride (11/07) are now closed.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
Very nice to have a single page of text to summarize this issue.

I wish they'd been involved in the loss of all the Price area technical 4x4 routes during the last RMP. The roads we ran 100+ registered participants on during our Fall Ride (11/07) are now closed.

Who?
 
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I guess what I meant to say was, if they were working on those trails, I wish they had been successful, or if they hadn't been aware of the situation on those trails, I wish they had been informed about them.

You mentioned that we should be thankful to them for watching the Price FO and keeping trails open. I agree that we should be appreciative of all the volunteer activists working with their local land managers. I'm certainly appreciative of Scott Wheeler for putting the SRP issues on one handy summary page to help answer the questions and confusion out there over this issue.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
I guess what I meant to say was, if they were working on those trails, I wish they had been successful, or if they hadn't been aware of the situation on those trails, I wish they had been informed about them.

I can't say that Scott and the others were specifically working on those trails. I know they have spent time with members of the CCKC educating them on how to gather and submit data. Most of Scotts and the others work has been concentrated in the San Rafael. They are primarily motorcycle riders, but understand it is important to keep trails open to everyone. If they close it to one, it is going to effect the others.

As far as being aware of the situation, great scott on RME previously explained the situation as to what happened. http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=58745
Now, is this the complete truth as to what happened? Did they lose the data, or not. All any of us know is that the data was submitted, great scott when checking on the progress was told the data was lost, then data was not re-submitted in time. However, when Scott Wheeler, Alan Peterson and Wade Allinson were meeting with the BLM after the RMP came out, the BLM told them the data was never lost. Sounds a little odd to me.

I wish I had a more definitive answer to the trails around Price. I have only become involved in the full-size arena in the last year and a half. I was not involved in any of the data gathering, submission or meeting with the BLM on these trails.

In this land use battle, it takes groups banding together and protecting what they want. Scott and others picked the San Rafael as there battle ground, the groups from Moab picked their battle ground, CCKC picked the Price trails as their battle ground. It is each of those groups responsibility to keep an eye on it.

I am probably going to piss some people off, but I think that when it comes to the Price trails, things fell through the cracks. No one person is responsible, it is just that no one person took responsibility. I wish I was more involved with the full-size community at that time.
 
They are primarily motorcycle riders, but understand it is important to keep trails open to everyone. If they close it to one, it is going to effect the others.

How do you feel about local efforts to close the road through Fix-it Pass to vehicles over 50"?

As far as being aware of the situation, great scott on RME previously explained the situation as to what happened. http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=58745
Now, is this the complete truth as to what happened? Did they lose the data, or not. All any of us know is that the data was submitted, great scott when checking on the progress was told the data was lost, then data was not re-submitted in time. However, when Scott Wheeler, Alan Peterson and Wade Allinson were meeting with the BLM after the RMP came out, the BLM told them the data was never lost. Sounds a little odd to me.

Yes, I'm aware. Are you suggesting that Scott Edwards is fabricating his account of what happened?

In this land use battle, it takes groups banding together and protecting what they want. Scott and others picked the San Rafael as there battle ground, the groups from Moab picked their battle ground, CCKC picked the Price trails as their battle ground. It is each of those groups responsibility to keep an eye on it.

Local efforts get the best results for sure. I wish we had a competent statewide organization to organize efforts and keep all OHV users informed.

I am probably going to piss some people off, but I think that when it comes to the Price trails, things fell through the cracks. No one person is responsible, it is just that no one person took responsibility. I wish I was more involved with the full-size community at that time.

No doubt things fell through the cracks. As is common, we are only one-deep on activists in many areas. If the point man moves, loses interest, has family priorities, etc, we have little to no backup (again, wouldn't it be nice to have a competent statewide org to catch things falling through the cracks?).

I think my original point was that your statement should have read, "thanks for the work they have done over the last 25 years keeping an eye on the Price field office and working to keep [motorcycle routes] open."

It sounds right and utopian to say "we're all in it together," but the various modes of motorized rec have some very distinct issues and objectives. Trying to be all things to every OHV user is a great way to accomplish little to nothing.

It takes local users passionate about their local area to affect change and protect access. We agree for sure.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
How do you feel about local efforts to close the road through Fix-it Pass to vehicles over 50"?

I am not aware of this. Is it the Emery County OHV group pushing for it? Personally, I want it to stay open to full size and will do what I can to push that.



Yes, I'm aware. Are you suggesting that Scott Edwards is fabricating his account of what happened?

Not at all. Since I was trying to cover different aspects,
I was afraid it would come across wrong. What Scott has stated, is what he has been told by the BLM. They claim they lost the data, but in a later meeting with other people that neither Scott or I were at, they claimed they always had it. This is typical for our BLM office. If anything needs to be clarified, I hope Scott will.



Local efforts get the best results for sure. I wish we had a competent statewide organization to organize efforts and keep all OHV users informed.

I know you are critical of USA-ALL and I will not second guess your reasons for it. Looking toward the future, I hope that they become organization and invite anybody who has had problems with Mike or the organization to work towards putting water under the bridge and making it a great organization.



No doubt things fell through the cracks. As is common, we are only one-deep on activists in many areas. If the point man moves, loses interest, has family priorities, etc, we have little to no backup (again, wouldn't it be nice to have a competent statewide org to catch things falling through the cracks?).

I think my original point was that your statement should have read, "thanks for the work they have done over the last 25 years keeping an eye on the Price field office and working to keep [motorcycle routes] open."

While their primary focus was motorcycle routes, I know they have also done things to maintain full size access. If there is anything I have learned from their beliefs, it is that if one group loses access, it has impacts on all groups. Now there have been instances where a full size route was going to be closed....period....end of story, but things have been negotiated to keep it at least accessable to ATV's.

It sounds right and utopian to say "we're all in it together," but the various modes of motorized rec have some very distinct issues and objectives. Trying to be all things to every OHV user is a great way to accomplish little to nothing.

I think all users need to work together, but maintain focus on their own prospective interests. In that sense, we are all in it together.

It takes local users passionate about their local area to affect change and protect access. We agree for sure.


Agree 110%. Get ahold of me next time you are coming through Price. Lunch is on me.
 
I am not aware of this. Is it the Emery County OHV group pushing for it?

A collaboration of clubs and people have been proposing this as part of a broader plan to reclassify several routes as 50" or less. A few years ago, they went as far as trying to block the narrow pass by repositioning some boulders. They then reported to the FO that the road was impassable to full-size 4x4's. It wasn't. :)

Not at all. Since I was trying to cover different aspects, I was afraid it would come across wrong. What Scott has stated, is what he has been told by the BLM. They claim they lost the data, but in a later meeting with other people that neither Scott or I were at, they claimed they always had it. This is typical for our BLM office.

Understood.

I know you are critical of USA-ALL and I will not second guess your reasons for it. Looking toward the future, I hope that they become organization and invite anybody who has had problems with Mike or the organization to work towards putting water under the bridge and making it a great organization.

I didn't say anything about or in reference to USA-ALL.

While their primary focus was motorcycle routes, I know they have also done things to maintain full size access.

I'm sure they have.

If there is anything I have learned from their beliefs, it is that if one group loses access, it has impacts on all groups. Now there have been instances where a full size route was going to be closed....period....end of story, but things have been negotiated to keep it at least accessable to ATV's.

4x4 users are the only motorized group who share their routes 100% with ATV's and 2-wheelers (assuming your ATV or 2-wheeler are street-legal for the tiny number of routes limited to street-legal vehicles only). As we fight for our access, we are by default fighting for 2-wheel and ATV access as well. 4x4 users efforts are impacting all groups. When is the AMA going to come defend Cannan Mountain? If someone wants to promote "being as one" and "fighting as a group", there are far more ATV and 2-wheel riders in Utah than active off-highway 4x4 users. 4x4 groups don't advocate for exclusive use trails. ATV and 2-wheel groups do it all the time. I would like to see 100+ ATV users and 100+ 2-wheel users at a single site for NPLD 2009.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
A collaboration of clubs and people have been proposing this as part of a broader plan to reclassify several routes as 50" or less. A few years ago, they went as far as trying to block the narrow pass by repositioning some boulders. They then reported to the FO that the road was impassable to full-size 4x4's. It wasn't. :)

I will dig into this further.

I didn't say anything about or in reference to USA-ALL.

I made an assumption since you were critical of USA-ALL in another thread and you referenced a state wide organization watching out for issues.




4x4 users are the only motorized group who share their routes 100% with ATV's and 2-wheelers (assuming your ATV or 2-wheeler are street-legal for the tiny number of routes limited to street-legal vehicles only). As we fight for our access, we are by default fighting for 2-wheel and ATV access as well. 4x4 users efforts are impacting all groups. When is the AMA going to come defend Cannan Mountain? If someone wants to promote "being as one" and "fighting as a group", there are far more ATV and 2-wheel riders in Utah than active off-highway 4x4 users. 4x4 groups don't advocate for exclusive use trails. ATV and 2-wheel groups do it all the time. I would like to see 100+ ATV users and 100+ 2-wheel users at a single site for NPLD 2009.

I agree. We need to make strides in this area. I have talked in the past about being centers of influence. People in the 4X4 community need to make contacts with the ATV and motorcycle community and get them involved in the fight. I look at myself as one of those resources in the Carbon/Emery. If anyone is aware of something in this area, let me know.
Just like you have with Fix it Pass. I am involved in the ATV and motorcycle groups locally and will see what I can find out.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
I think my original point was that your statement should have read, "thanks for the work they have done over the last 25 years keeping an eye on the Price field office and working to keep [motorcycle routes] open."

After thinking about this further, all of the work that has been done in the San Rafael has include all users. From bulldozed roads that are not used very often, to atv trails, to motorcycle trails that were used in races. Of all the designated routes in the San Rafael less than 50 miles of that is designated as single track (Dick Brass trail system) and there is not much more in the way of atv trails. So in reality their work has kept a lot of roads that would have been closed, open.

Our belief that we use in our approach to land use is, if the road was built by a bull dozer, it needs to stay open to full size. If the Land Managers are not going to do that, then is there an option for compromise that keeps it open to other users. In fact 95% of the data that we gathered around Chimney rock in dispute of WC was old bulldozed roads.

I think the assumption that they only keep motorcycle trails open is inaccurate.
 
I have made a couple calls and nobody is aware of this. Do you have a name of a person or club you specifically know is pushing for this?

This was about 3 1/2 years ago. I heard about it from two sources from completely different OHV circles. At the time, one of them did tell me the name of the club involved, but I'm not sure I remember it correctly. I will try and re-find the specifics before adding more.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
That was about the time I moved back to Price, so there may have been a push for it 3 1/2 years ago, but to my knowledge that is not an issue any longer. To me it does not make any sense to close that to over 50 ". It closes of a loop route and the amount of full size traffic over that route is pretty minimal. So if it was for impact reasons, it does not make sense to me.

I have riden these routes many times on ATV's and motorcycles. I need to get out and do it in my Jeep. You should come down and lets do it.
 

utahmike

Lobbyist \ Consultant
Forgive me if my comments aren't in proper context...it's Sat night and my wife is a little pissed I am on this forum and not spending time with her... but in glancing through a few posts I would like to say how I feel personally, and have felt since way before I began working for USA-ALL. The closure of full size roads even jeep trails to "ATV's" is a huge concern, and is absolutely unacceptable. ATV and MC enthusiasts would do well to consider that the more user types can benefit from a trail the more unlikely it is that said trail will be closed. This is classic divide and conquer by the Feds. I would love for some 4WD clubs to suggest a few trails were this has happened and work with them to restore access to such trails for ALL motorized users.
 
The closure of full size roads even jeep trails to "ATV's" is a huge concern, and is absolutely unacceptable.

OK. In this discussion, maybe you meant the other way around? We're concerned about ATV/MC activists pursuing exclusive use trails.

ATV and MC enthusiasts would do well to consider that the more user types can benefit from a trail the more unlikely it is that said trail will be closed.

Absolutely. I'd love to see this message propogated to ATV and MC users more consistently.

I would love for some 4WD clubs to suggest a few trails were this has happened and work with them to restore access to such trails for ALL motorized users.

Off the top of my head, I can think of FS route 238 on Miller Hill in American Fork Canyon. Historically a 4x4 road (and still a 4x4 road), it was reclassified as single track only when the last forest plan was updated in 2005/2006. The only concern I've seen about this change has been from 4x4 users. Haven't seen the motorcycle groups complain about our collective loss of access. Maybe they have and I just haven't seen it.
 
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