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SUWA staff

Stephen

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
Location
Never Far From Nowhere
Wow, what are you guys? In Jr. High? Yeah, we have some seriously differing views to these people, but we should keep our arguments above board and not stoop to personal attacks. Remember, what goes on the internet, stays on the internet. Do you think SUWA doesn't monitor RME? Of course they do. And when they see us saying stuff like this, do you think that helps us in our attempts to find compromise with them? No. It only further galvanizes their resolve to try and lock us out of our public lands. Personal attacks are the lowest form of debate. You get nowhere with someone when you start insulting them.
 
DAA

DAA

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
West Bountiful, UT
You'll get nowhere trying to "compromise" with SUWA either.

Their idea of compromise, and I think they truly believe this, is we give up something and they take it. But! They let us give up "less" and they agree to take "less" than they really want to take, so it's a "compromise". They'll come back for the rest later. If we don't give up anything, they get nothing. They sure as heck aren't going to agree to opening any new, or previously closed routes. A one way street. They take and take and we give and give. That's not compromise or even a situation where compromise is possible. Nor do I believe compromise has any place in their deliberate long term strategy and game planning.

They don't think we are smart enough to even take part in the conversation. And again, I think they truly believe that. We just aren't "enlightened" or we'd understand that what they want is really what is best for everyone, including us. But we poor dullard motorized users, we're so backwards and have never really even been exposed to higher thinking, it's not our fault, but, gee whiz, we just "don't get it". Never mind the ranchers! Oh my... Three generations or working their balls off to scratch out a living and feed this country but not smart enough to understand that they don't have any right to continue using the land - their smelly cows ruin the aesthetic for the enlightened backcountry crowd.

Smarmy, arrogant, holier than thou attitude just rubs me the wrong way. And they all have it.

That said, I grew up an atheist lesbian trapped in a Mormon mans body, so I empathize with them on that level and the snarky remarks in this thread have wounded my inner lesbian.

- DAA
 
sixstringsteve

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
I don't agree with 99% of their policies, their methods, or their unwilingness to bend, but they look like nice people to me. They believe they're taking the moral high ground, and I respect them for getting behind something they believe. That being said, it's truly a shame when any one group tries to dictate how all other groups can or cannot recreate in "their" playground. It's too bad they aren't willing to see the world through other people's eyes and consider that other groups have a right to recreate differently. Any one group who demands the world be their way without the consideration of other interest groups needs to be reminded that it's not all about them. The way they villainize motorized groups and lie and slander is childish and unprofessional, but I will try to refrain from doing the same with them.

If SUWA had their way, my recreation opportunities would be seriously limited in this state, and I would be upset. I can't stand it when people outside of Utah determine the fate of what goes on in Utah, and I get especially mad when the lie in order to pass their agenda. I have a problem with SUWA and its policies, but I don't have a problem with the people that support SUWA. I have a hiking friend who's land-use views are 100% polar opposite to mine (she would side with SUWA on most of their issues). However, I don't hate her for her views. We still get along and have a great time camping together. I find it frustrating that she doesn't see things the way I do, but hey, that's life. If everyone saw things the same way this would be a terrible place to live. I'm glad we have the freedom in this country to disagree and stand behind our beliefs.

What really surprised me was that they have 19 people on the staff. Are they all on the payroll? The more litigation they get tied up in, the more business they create for themselves. If they stopped trying to tie up land in court, then they'd be out of a job. So any "compromise" of their stance could potentially loose them money and jobs. At that point it starts to look more like a business more than a moral crusade. How can you claim to have a balanced view on land use when your paycheck is only supported by one of those viewpoints? What irks me most is the way the lie and feign innocence. If people relied on SUWA's descriptions of motorized vehicle users, everyone would think that motorized vehicle owners are the devil incarnate. The slander from SUWA needs to stop, but that would affect their paychecks, and we can't have that.
 
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DAA

DAA

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
West Bountiful, UT
You're a better man than me Steve. I can get along with literally almost anyone on a superficial level. And I can have a meaningful relationship and have a lasting friendship with someone who disagrees with some of my core beliefs and values. Hell, I'm an atheist - none of the people closest to me agree with that or even attempt to understand it, but we still love each other.

I can't maintain a relationship that has any meaning with someone who holds my core values and beliefs in contempt though. And in my limited experience, that's exactly how SUWA types (most aren't even actual members) feel about my position on some of these issues. Like I said above, they really seem to think anyone who doesn't agree, simply "doesn't get it" and whether they sugar coat it with sickening patronization or transparently phony empathy, or just tell it to you straight, they reveal contempt for my beliefs and values.

You ARE a better man than me. Takes one to know one, I guess. Because I have contempt for them right back. At that point, relationship, ehh... No bueno.

- DAA
 
sixstringsteve

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
DAA said:
I can't maintain a relationship that has any meaning with someone who holds my core values and beliefs in contempt though. And in my limited experience, that's exactly how SUWA types (most aren't even actual members) feel about my position on some of these issues. Like I said above, they really seem to think anyone who doesn't agree, simply "doesn't get it" and whether they sugar coat it with sickening patronization or transparently phony empathy, or just tell it to you straight, they reveal contempt for my beliefs and values.
Click to expand...

Amen. Preach on brother.

I'm convinced that most SUWA followers haven't done much research outside of what SUWA tells them. If what SUWA said were actually true, it would be hard not to support them. After all, who wants to destroy this planet? Seeing that their "facts" are fabricated to stir emotions to get people to donate more $ to their cause only makes me loose more respect for the org.

Read this and tell me they're fair and balanced towards motorized recreation. It's not the ruling that gets my blood boiling, but their description of motorized users and their crusade to shut down every dirt road in the state. But then again, that's guaranteed income for them if they keep fighting this.
 
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JL Rockies

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
A friend of mine invited me to "like" SUWA on Facebook. She knew I loved southern UT and was sure that I'd want to protect it. She had no idea of the reaction she'd get, she never heard of SUWA before.

Statism is a warm fuzzy blanket that eventually the effers will smother you with.

Even these people pictured will find themselves on the outside once their purpose is served.
 
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