Your negativity is not welcome here!!
not negative, just realistic
The Budget Buggy - Take Two
- Thread starter Coco
- Start date
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- build thread
not negative, just realistic
Hopefully not, just need to finish up the axle, then I will be pretty dang close.
Well, I clearly haven't updates this thread in a long while lol. Its up and running now. It has two comps on it so far, and it is working really well. My only complaint is my motor is a gutless wonder! Been debating going to a different fuel system (possibly a carb with a turbo hat on the top, thus keeping fuel in the bowl with the turbo pressure. I have seen this system done a couple times, and seems to work really well!), trying to figure out how to tune this one to run better, (although the propane tank takes up a TON of room on the back of the chassis) or just looking into a whole new drivetrain altogether (though I really dont want to do that since I just finished it ... again ) It is definitely nice to have the auto now though! Thats been a lot better than three pedaling fun. I liked my dual case setup, and having a manual with the duals wasn't too big of a deal, but still a hassle from time to time.
The old Trail-Gear disconnect was really really easy to do front digs, but I am happy with the functions of the Dana 300. The only frustrations I have with it, is I rebuilt it with the Teraflex 4:1 kit, and the HD output shaft, and well, it leaks oil. Kind of annoying, I probably just didnt get enough silicone on some of the areas needed. So when I get ambitious, I will pull it out and attempt to seal it up better. I hate leaks, so that is annoying.
The brakes could be a little better, I re-used my 7/8" master cylinders from the previous setup and they are a bit spongy, and dont seem to have the holding power from time to time. THey seemed to get better during Old School, but I will give them a little longer before I switch to 3/4" masters.
Another issue I found was I folded the right rear upper shock tabs during WERock slightly. I figured it was due to not having any bracing, so I went home and braced them up before OSRC. Well on the backside of the Matterhorn taking the Pro Mod line, and rode out of a wheelstand, and the full weight of the buggy came down on the rear end. That finished off the shock tabs on that side. Other side wasn't affected at all, which I thought was really odd. A couple of the guys think it may be due to the added weight of the offset diff on that side, but I keep thinking it is still unsprung weight. Regardless, I ordered some 1/4" tabs from Ballistic to replace the 3/16" ones that were on there. Last Saturday I torched the old ones off, and put the new ones on, and braced them with 3/16" plate braced between the two tabs. This I am hoping will resolve that issue.
Here's a bunch of pics from the build, finished, comps, etc
) It is definitely nice to have the auto now though! Thats been a lot better than three pedaling fun. I liked my dual case setup, and having a manual with the duals wasn't too big of a deal, but still a hassle from time to time.The old Trail-Gear disconnect was really really easy to do front digs, but I am happy with the functions of the Dana 300. The only frustrations I have with it, is I rebuilt it with the Teraflex 4:1 kit, and the HD output shaft, and well, it leaks oil. Kind of annoying, I probably just didnt get enough silicone on some of the areas needed. So when I get ambitious, I will pull it out and attempt to seal it up better. I hate leaks, so that is annoying.
The brakes could be a little better, I re-used my 7/8" master cylinders from the previous setup and they are a bit spongy, and dont seem to have the holding power from time to time. THey seemed to get better during Old School, but I will give them a little longer before I switch to 3/4" masters.
Another issue I found was I folded the right rear upper shock tabs during WERock slightly. I figured it was due to not having any bracing, so I went home and braced them up before OSRC. Well on the backside of the Matterhorn taking the Pro Mod line, and rode out of a wheelstand, and the full weight of the buggy came down on the rear end. That finished off the shock tabs on that side. Other side wasn't affected at all, which I thought was really odd. A couple of the guys think it may be due to the added weight of the offset diff on that side, but I keep thinking it is still unsprung weight. Regardless, I ordered some 1/4" tabs from Ballistic to replace the 3/16" ones that were on there. Last Saturday I torched the old ones off, and put the new ones on, and braced them with 3/16" plate braced between the two tabs. This I am hoping will resolve that issue.
Here's a bunch of pics from the build, finished, comps, etc
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This was the top 3 of the trail buggy class. Brent 1st, me 2nd, and pops (at his first comp even) 3rd. Tried to get Chance to take the pic with us, but he had already taken off. He pulled double duty spotting for both me, and my dad. He did a great job, and I can't wait to get to Nationals! (if the engine on the buggy gets fixed)
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Thanks Bart!
Rig looks nicer/better every time you tinker with it.
Haha I agree! But I am getting tired of tinkering with it now!
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
Nice work Colton.
as much as i liked this rig red, the new tube does look pretty awesome! she's a beast.
if you decide to pull the old 22r, think you'll stay with a yota motor? a super charged 3.4L would be pretty sweet in that rig!
Thanks man!
I haven't thought too hard on that just yet, as tearing it apart again makes me cringe haha. I have thought about a 3.4L, and a supcharged version would be pretty awesome as well, just would have to see if I could get it to fit, but at that rate, I would probably cut the front frame rails off, and go to tubing there as well. A 3.4L with the auto would make it a lot easier to keep everything I have, I could probably even keep my AW4, and just switch the bellhousing, TC, flexplate, etc. Or go to the Toyota version and switch out the tailhousing. Either way, I am 95% sure they are the same trans, just different tailhousings/bellhousings and possibly input/output shafts.
Well, been working on the engine for over a month, and still having issues... It all started when we decided to get the engine to run better, and squeeze more power out of the turbo. We got the turbo boosting 10-12 PSI, and got the propane mapped out pretty well. We decided to take it out for one more rip around the block to make sure everything was good. We noticed it started smoking, and figured it was just due to the higher boost levels pushing a little oil through the intake. I noticed halfway around, it started running really rough. Once we pulled back to the house, we noticed the blue smoke a lot more. We let it idle to clear out, which it wasn't running well, but after a minute it went to white smoke.
After I ordered up the parts, I loaded it onto the trailer, and towed it down to my buddies shop. Once we got in there, we found the problem. The fire ring on the Fel-Pro gasket failed on the #1 cylinder.
I had called up LC Engineering the week prior, and got an MLS gasket, a stage 2 turbo cam, dual rocker spring kit w/ titanium retainers all ordered up. As well as LROR for the rockers.
Once we got it all back together, we fired it up and it ran really rough, and was still blowing a lot of smoke. We let it run a bit to see if it would clear up and just had a bit of coolant and oil in the head and intake that needed clearing out. After getting it warm, it still wasn't clearing up, so we pulled the charge pipe off, and found oil sitting on the butterfly valves. I drained the oil, as we wanted to get it warm to clear out as much gunk as we could, and there was maybe a quart to a quart and a half of oil in the pan. Needless to say the turbo seals were blown as well. I changed the oil, and we pushed it (very difficultly. between stickies, and the new axles it HATES to be moved anywhere, even downhill!) out of the shop til the following weekend.
In the meantime, I ordered a turbo rebuild kit off of eBay. Once the weekend came, we met back up at the shop, and took the turbo back off the buggy for a rebuild. Once the turbo we rebuilt, we threw everything back together, and fired it back up. Again it was running really rough, but still figured it had lots of oil in the intake that needed cleaning out. We jumped in it, and took it up the road and back. As we were rounding the corner to get back to the shop, it was running REALLY rough, and we got sprayed with oil. The oil supply line to the turbo popped off the press fitting (which means in our rush to make sure we had a high pressure rating, we just missed the size of hose it was) but as I came to a stop, the engine died as well. We clamped the hose back on to just get back to the shop, but she would not run. We could not figure out why it wouldn't run. We checked the coil, the plugs, everything. We pulled the plugs and did a compression test, and cylinder 1 had no compression. The rest of the cylinders have great compression. However even with one cylinder down, the motor should still fire up. We ran out of time, and I hooked up my truck to it to drag it to another packing spot to sit for another week.
This last weekend, we again met up to see if we could get this figured out. We pulled the valve cover, and reset the valves in case that was the issue. We then did a leak down test, and found out the exhaust valve on cylinder 1 was losing 65% of pressure. So, that is where it sits currently. I am going to be calling Cleggs in Orem, as well as C&T to see what a valve job on my head will run me...
Needless to say, I am beyond frustrated with my engine in the buggy right now, and I am debating getting rid of it altogether for a 3.4L and going to gasoline. Still not sure what I am going to do, but I am trying to get it done and running for Nationals next month. Best thing at this time will need to be getting the valve job done, and throwing it all back together to see if we can get it running again. Still not sure what is causing it not to run, everything appears fine, and it should run on 3 cylinders regardless. We have no idea how long cylinder 1 has been down, but it is possible why my engine has been running like absolute poop this entire time, but I never saw or heard any down cylinders. It is possible many things decided to crap out all at once I guess...
After I ordered up the parts, I loaded it onto the trailer, and towed it down to my buddies shop. Once we got in there, we found the problem. The fire ring on the Fel-Pro gasket failed on the #1 cylinder.
I had called up LC Engineering the week prior, and got an MLS gasket, a stage 2 turbo cam, dual rocker spring kit w/ titanium retainers all ordered up. As well as LROR for the rockers.
Once we got it all back together, we fired it up and it ran really rough, and was still blowing a lot of smoke. We let it run a bit to see if it would clear up and just had a bit of coolant and oil in the head and intake that needed clearing out. After getting it warm, it still wasn't clearing up, so we pulled the charge pipe off, and found oil sitting on the butterfly valves. I drained the oil, as we wanted to get it warm to clear out as much gunk as we could, and there was maybe a quart to a quart and a half of oil in the pan. Needless to say the turbo seals were blown as well. I changed the oil, and we pushed it (very difficultly. between stickies, and the new axles it HATES to be moved anywhere, even downhill!) out of the shop til the following weekend.
In the meantime, I ordered a turbo rebuild kit off of eBay. Once the weekend came, we met back up at the shop, and took the turbo back off the buggy for a rebuild. Once the turbo we rebuilt, we threw everything back together, and fired it back up. Again it was running really rough, but still figured it had lots of oil in the intake that needed cleaning out. We jumped in it, and took it up the road and back. As we were rounding the corner to get back to the shop, it was running REALLY rough, and we got sprayed with oil. The oil supply line to the turbo popped off the press fitting (which means in our rush to make sure we had a high pressure rating, we just missed the size of hose it was) but as I came to a stop, the engine died as well. We clamped the hose back on to just get back to the shop, but she would not run. We could not figure out why it wouldn't run. We checked the coil, the plugs, everything. We pulled the plugs and did a compression test, and cylinder 1 had no compression. The rest of the cylinders have great compression. However even with one cylinder down, the motor should still fire up. We ran out of time, and I hooked up my truck to it to drag it to another packing spot to sit for another week.
This last weekend, we again met up to see if we could get this figured out. We pulled the valve cover, and reset the valves in case that was the issue. We then did a leak down test, and found out the exhaust valve on cylinder 1 was losing 65% of pressure. So, that is where it sits currently. I am going to be calling Cleggs in Orem, as well as C&T to see what a valve job on my head will run me...
Needless to say, I am beyond frustrated with my engine in the buggy right now, and I am debating getting rid of it altogether for a 3.4L and going to gasoline. Still not sure what I am going to do, but I am trying to get it done and running for Nationals next month. Best thing at this time will need to be getting the valve job done, and throwing it all back together to see if we can get it running again. Still not sure what is causing it not to run, everything appears fine, and it should run on 3 cylinders regardless. We have no idea how long cylinder 1 has been down, but it is possible why my engine has been running like absolute poop this entire time, but I never saw or heard any down cylinders. It is possible many things decided to crap out all at once I guess...
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
Wow Colton, that's horrible luck! You built that engine to run well with boost, I can't believe it's having such huge issues!
No kidding! I couldn't believe it as it was just one thing after another. I hope with the machine work, it will be good, and will be running well when I get it back together, but at this point, I am not holding my breath.
I called up C&T, and they are saying they should be able to get the head taken care of before the weekend, so I went down last night and got it all torn apart. I will be dropping it off around 9 this morning, so hopefully all goes smoothly.
Well after fighting the engine countless times, and towing it all the way down to Farmington for Nationals, and still not working properly, I yanked it and all the propane stuff a couple weeks back and sold it all off. Figured it had to have been in the piston rings, as the top end was completely new, but I had enough screwing with it. Sold it to a guy in NV, and he got back to me a couple days later saying the rings were broke or shot in cylinders 1 and I believe 3. oh well, I think we both got good deals out of it, and I have already purchased a new powerplant and trans. I am picking up a supercharged 3.8 V6, and a 904 transmission. Not 100% sure on going with that engine, but the deal was too good to pass up for the package. I may sell the engine, and pickup a 3.9; we will see. Not thrilled that I will have to cut the front of the chassis off to fit whatever engine I go with, but at the same time, the front Toyota frame rails have really made packaging tight on this car from day one, so I am ok with getting rid of it and going to tube.
oh well, I think we both got good deals out of it, and I have already purchased a new powerplant and trans. I am picking up a supercharged 3.8 V6, and a 904 transmission. Not 100% sure on going with that engine, but the deal was too good to pass up for the package. I may sell the engine, and pickup a 3.9; we will see. Not thrilled that I will have to cut the front of the chassis off to fit whatever engine I go with, but at the same time, the front Toyota frame rails have really made packaging tight on this car from day one, so I am ok with getting rid of it and going to tube.
- Location
- West Jordan
Now weren't there a dozen or so people telling you that it was the rings from the get go...? Ha ha... OK, maybe only a couple.
What year/series 3.8 did you get? I ran a series I 3800 and a TF904/909 for years (it's still currently being used by new owners...) and while it was never breathtakingly good at anything (other than reliability?) I did like the combo. But, in my opinion the power to weight ratio is not great (even the newer SC versions) relative to other options out there. If you have to go through all the work of redoing the frame, redoing the entire engine harness, adding a fuel system, blah blah blah, just sac-up and put a V8 in there.
Ha ha... OK, maybe only a couple.What year/series 3.8 did you get? I ran a series I 3800 and a TF904/909 for years (it's still currently being used by new owners...) and while it was never breathtakingly good at anything (other than reliability?) I did like the combo. But, in my opinion the power to weight ratio is not great (even the newer SC versions) relative to other options out there. If you have to go through all the work of redoing the frame, redoing the entire engine harness, adding a fuel system, blah blah blah, just sac-up and put a V8 in there.
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Now weren't there a dozen or so people telling you that it was the rings from the get go...?
What year/series 3.8 did you get? FI or NA? I ran a series I 3800 and a TF904/909 for years (it's still currently being used by new owners...) and while it was never breathtakingly good at anything (other than reliability?) I did like the combo. But, in my opinion the power to weight ratio is not great (even the newer SC versions) relative to other options out there. If you have to go through all the work of redoing the frame, redoing the entire engine harness, adding a fuel system, blah blah blah, just sac-up and put a V8 in there.
Haha yeah, several were saying rings, but the valves in the head were bad too, so it was everything in the end wrong with it it seems. Seems like everything took a dump on it all at once, and we didn't know til one thing was fixed at a time.
It is a 97, cable driven. Not sure what series or if that is good though, but I am still leaning 3.9.
A V8 will just get me in more trouble, and blow my T-case. Plus with my rear axle pretty much means I top out at 45-50 MPH with the driveline angles on it.
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- Location
- West Jordan
A 97 3800 would be a series II. Should be a bit peppier and a little lighter than the 93 I used.
I certainly could have missed it somewhere, but what 3.9 are you talking about running? The GM High Value? This cute little thing?
RogueJeepr
Here!
- Location
- Utah
If you need to take any measurements for a 3.8 (231cu) LMK.
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