Thoughts on open carry?

[Herzog]

just like that...

good example of how to open carry, the NRA thinks so also..

You miss my point.

But also it's really a matter of perspective. I agree those guys with the rifles look dangerous and irresponsible. I wouldn't be very comfortable around them as most people wouldn't. But you can't write laws to help others from "feeling" in danger or to make sure nobody gets their feelings hurt.

You can't really "abuse" a right, unless you actually think that it is alienable.

 

[locknloadfzj80]

You miss my point.

But also it's really a matter of perspective. I agree those guys with the rifles look dangerous and irresponsible. I wouldn't be very comfortable around them as most people wouldn't. But you can't write laws to help others from "feeling" in danger or to make sure nobody gets their feelings hurt.

You can't really "abuse" a right, unless you actually think that it is alienable.

Totally agree. While they look pretty lame doing that, I would hardly call standing in a cafe with a firearm abuse if a right... Especially considering that, judging by the pic, there are a whole 3-5 people in the room. NONE of which are even paying any attention to the two guys.



Now look at those abusers of rights! They are throwing all that free speech out in public where ANYONE driving by can see and be offended! They are also assembled in the way of the publics use of that sidewalk impeding peoples casual strolls! Let's not forget the dangers they cause. What if one of them or someone on a casual stroll trips and falls into traffic!? Then what if a motorist wrecks due to the distraction. Now that is not just irresponsable but has to be abuse! (by some of the logic being tossed around here....)

The bit about the felon is why I put in the bit about after parole has ended. In theory, once they have done their time, been released, not on parole, they are due their full constitutional rights as a citizen. I'm not about to go yelling from the rooftops that armed robbery felons should be allowed to carry concealed weapons once they are free, but if you want to get all constitutional about it....

Oh I totally got that. I was just giving a more expanded reasoning about why that specific instance could be argued as allowed. Also there is no theory about it. That's the way it should be. I disagree with the fact that someone can "pay their dues" for a mistake in the past and still not have their rights restored. The case you mentioned of violent offenders could easily be avoided with a lifetime parole statue or the such.

 

[MikeGyver]

Now look at those abusers of rights! They are throwing all that free speech out in public where ANYONE driving by can see and be offended! They are also assembled in the way of the publics use of that sidewalk impeding peoples casual strolls! Let's not forget the dangers they cause. What if one of them or someone on a casual stroll trips and falls into traffic!? Then what if a motorist wrecks due to the distraction. Now that is not just irresponsable but has to be abuse! (by some of the logic being tossed around here....)

and if that was a thing (which its obviously not because its a ridiculous analogy) it would be dealt with through legislation if necessary. If they were assembling in a way that actually did impede traffic or cause actual danger to motorists then the situation would obviously be taken care of by the police... simple as that. Your right to hold a sign would not be infringed upon, you're talking about something else at that point. (hold your sign over here instead plz so people stop dying from your dangerous situation k thx).

 

[locknloadfzj80]

and if that was a thing (which its obviously not because its a ridiculous analogy) it would be dealt with through legislation if necessary. If they were assembling in a way that actually did impede traffic or cause actual danger to motorists then the situation would obviously be taken care of by the police... simple as that. Your right to hold a sign would not be infringed upon, you're talking about something else at that point. (hold your sign over here instead plz so people stop dying from your dangerous situation k thx).

Yep.... Its just as ridiculous as getting ones panties in a wad about someone having a rifle in an open cary situation.... Also even thinking that the RIGHT to assemble and the RIGHT to free speech could be legislated away is laughable. It is also sad and scary that you would/could even think that way man. You wouldn't happen to be French, would you?

 

[MikeGyver]

A "right" is just what the government wants to define as one, nothing more...
And evidently there are a lot of stupid people in this country who vote.

Dude.... This is just dumb.... Except the last statement. That is about 52.9% correct.
What you are describing is a privilege. If you feel our constitution is full of government allowed privileges then you're a huge part of the problem, in more ways then you can possibly realize.

I don't think you understood what I was saying. It seems like you're actually agreeing with what I said you just don't realize it lol

government defines rights, stupid people vote, the government IS the vote of the people....

The bill of rights (I'm not familiar with the Bill of Privileges) are amendments to the constitution, made by elected officials of the public largely through the process of voting. These amendments set forth new rights, or altered the rights previously 'allowed'.
Even very core personal rights have been changed. Women and blacks did not have a right to vote, they now do. Saying rights can't change is truly bizarre logic. It's not made up stuff, it's History.

There are other countries where governments do not grant the right or privileged to walk into a Starbucks with an assault rifle, yet these countries are still comprised of human beings...
Bottom line is, rights are essentially what the gov says.

 

[locknloadfzj80]

I don't think you understood what I was saying. It seems like you're actually agreeing with what I said you just don't realize it lol

government defines rights, stupid people vote, the government IS the vote of the people....

The bill of rights (I'm not familiar with the Bill of Privileges) are amendments to the constitution, made by elected officials of the public largely through the process of voting. These amendments set forth new rights, or altered the rights previously 'allowed'.
Even very core personal rights have been changed. Women and blacks did not have a right to vote, they now do. Saying rights can't change is truly bizarre logic. It's not made up stuff, it's History.

Bottom line, Rights are what the gov says.

No no no.... You are wrong as two boys making out man. I fully understand what your thought process is. It's just incorrect. The Bill of Rights / Constitution doesn't GIVE you or me crap. It outlines inalienable rights that we, as free men, are guaranteed. They were put into the aforementioned documents to limit the powers of the government to trample those rights as has been the case so many times in history.

 

[Kevin B.]

Nothing is inalienable. Nothing is guaranteed that we as a society don't guarantee ourselves. Mike is right.

 

[locknloadfzj80]

Oh.... my..... goodness....... I didn't hear this kind of idiocy in the time I was stationed in Ca. Never thought I would hear it out here.

Try to take away ones INALIENABLE right/s. You may get lucky and have chosen to take away from those who don't have the intestinal fortitude to fight for them. Try to take it away from the masses / county and you would see first hand how utterly wrong you are.

Edit for clarification: by fight I do not (necessarily) mean with violence of action. I am primarily talking about through the judiciary channels.

 

[Kevin B.]

You do an amazing impression of a brick.

 

[locknloadfzj80]

You do an amazing impression of a brick.

And you do an amazing impression of a jester hoping to entertain his master. Dancing around like a fool hoping for some attention. Don't think too hard with your responses though man. The affordable care act may not be able to service that one malfunctioning brain cell you have left....


Back on topic: My thought on reactions can be summed up with this: If you see someone walking around with a firearm all hanging out. They are likely doing it for some general reasons: Attention, because they don't want to leave it in the car for whatever reason, job requirement to be armed, they lack a concealed permit and have the right to do so, or because they feel that is their (misguided?) show of support for the 2nd. It's typically pretty easy to tell who is who. If it's the first. Just don't feed into it. Act like they aren't even there. Who are they doing harm to? Nobody. If they are doing it for any other reason then just do the same. Or even engage in some casual conversation with them if the situation allows. I have yet to meet a guy or gal open carrying that wasn't willing to bull shit about firearms. Any situation I have personally done this has been positive and even got some of the more timid folks in the public area engaged in conversations. That's just me though...

 

[Kevin B.]

You are abrasive, rude, and not too bright. Have a better day, friend, I'm out.

 

[locknloadfzj80]

You are abrasive, rude, and not too bright. Have a better day, friend, I'm out.

My apologies. I didn't know you had suffered from thin skin syndrome.... Please fill out the form attached so I can properly address my behavior....

 

[locknloadfzj80]

Locknload, could you have some respect for RME? Since I've been here (not all that long) I've seen the group tackle some difficult topics without name calling. That's not saying there wasn't friction but we all handled ourselves maturely.

I like following this conversation. I don't have a ton of input as I'm really still learning and listening. What I do have input on is this, the person that reduces their argument to a battle of name calling and insults has lost. And, if they need to go there they may as well exit the discussion as they're not likely to hear what the others are saying (writing in this case) anyhow.

Also, I remember this sig from a forum years ago "Never argue with an idiot, they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." If you feel someone is behaving that way, I'd say you take heed of that advice.

I have the upmost respect for the forum and it's members. Kevin B included. Just because there is some mud flinging doesn't change that.

Also I have been having discussion with its members. With qualifying remarks and thought process behind them on both sides. Then talking about the difference in views. I fail to see how that is disrespectful nor where the conversation has been reduced to an argument. With one member, maybe. But not the conversation as a whole. Especially when I wasn't the one that came into the conversation and within the second post of the day started talking shit with nothing better to add to the conversation.... Am I abrasive. Sure. Just call me an A-hole. I'm okay with it lol

lol that's actually my signature on another forum. I would not put anyone in the conversation in that category. Difference in opinion or not. Hence why I have been staying in the conversation...

Any who the conversation is derailing so obviously if anyone wants to continue then by all means, lets. I will try to be nicer. Otherwise PM me if I hurt your feelings with my being abrasive.

 

[MikeGyver]

oh boy...

 

[mesha]

You do an amazing impression of a brick.

I laughed so hard at this. My new favorite quote.

 

[Herzog]

Come on guys...

 

[jackjoh]

Note; The russian constitution gives the people only those rights that are written into it. The US constitution gives all rights except those restricted by it.

 

[locknloadfzj80]

Note; The russian constitution gives the people only those rights that are written into it. The US constitution gives all rights except those restricted by it.

Apparently only Congress gives rights here in the U.S....

 

[jeeper]

Apparently only Congress gives rights here in the U.S....

I am at a loss on how it is that you believe your 'rights' cant be taken away. They were 'given' by the men who set up the country, and were fought for very valiantly. They may be taken at any time we let them. If big brother says 'no more guns', there will be no more guns. (or another revolution, new constitution, lots of death, lots of destruction, etc. until someone wins)
a 'right' is nothing more than the law gives us. They can all be changed. It's up to us to keep or change them the way we see fit. If the voice of the people changes their opinion, good bye to those 'rights'.
Japanese folks had equal 'rights', right up until their home land bombed the US, then they had their 'rights' taken, and we shoved them into camps.

 

[locknloadfzj80]

I am at a loss on how it is that you believe your 'rights' cant be taken away. They were 'given' by the men who set up the country, and were fought for very valiantly. They may be taken at any time we let them. If big brother says 'no more guns', there will be no more guns. (or another revolution, new constitution, lots of death, lots of destruction, etc. until someone wins)
a 'right' is nothing more than the law gives us. They can all be changed. It's up to us to keep or change them the way we see fit. If the voice of the people changes their opinion, good bye to those 'rights'.
Japanese folks had equal 'rights', right up until their home land bombed the US, then they had their 'rights' taken, and we shoved them into camps.

Trust me man I am at just as much of a loss with what seems to be the general consensus here. I dont know anyones background here but I know mine in heavy part has been an serving faithfully an oath to that constitution, in large part because I strongly believe in the rights it protects, in which seems to be fairly disregarded here. An oath I guess I take too seriously for Utahns. I guess these privileges you guys speak of (because get it straight you guys are not talking about rights) are like sex and air.... You won't truly appreciate them till they are taken from you...

Anywho... So if big brother said no more free speech, no more freedom of the press, no more freedom of religion. Then poof gone? Get the hell out. There are more rights then to keep and bear arms. You Also, peoples opinion? Jesus Christ on a crutch... You do realize the US is not a democracy, right?

I guess we would a separate pocket for our free speech card, and our right to assemble card, and don't even think of attending a church without your religion card (assuming of course you passed your tolerance training first).

If you don't want to get searched for no reason make sure you have paid for a 4th amendment warrants required card.

If you do get charged with a crime you better hope you have applied for and been granted your 5th Amendment privileges card, otherwise a judge can summarily pass judgement and sentence you upon a mere accusation, you will be required to give evidence against yourself. Also don't forget that without your 5th amendment license the government can take any of your property at anytime with no compensation.

Of course they may not even bother with a judge if you don't have proof of your 6th amendment certification. The police can just arrest you and you never see the light of day again, or they could export your case from Nebraska to California where they have that judge they really like there.

If you think a trial by jury of your peers is more fair than a single man passing sentence, then I highly recommend a 7th amendment permit. Just take the course, pass the test, and pay the fee.

Then again assuming they even bother with convicting you of a crime, you better hope your yearly 8th amendment privileges certification has been renewed otherwise you could be flogged forty lashes with a cat-o-nine tails and fined one million dollars for jaywalking.

Finally none of that may matter if you haven't paid a fee to invoke your 9th and 10th amendment privileges, otherwise all matters not pertaining to the previous permitting process mentioned in the previous eight amendments will be handled in accordance with the sole discretion and total authority of the federal government.


Because hey. All of the above are just privileges that can be taken whenever the masses decide.... Right?