To 60 or To Not 60

[J Kimmel]

Summer before last I broke my Toy front end, one Long, one inner, one R&P, one Detroit, all at once.
I started adding up what a high pinion ARB would cost, and then I thought about what a 60 would cost, and by the time it was all done, I've got a 60 front and rear(rear is FF 35 spline too) and it wasn't much more. Now yes it was definately more expensive, but I sold all my Toy stuff for a decent price.

Front 60-$700
ARB-$550(they've gone up in price)
Narrow 2.5"-$100
Custom long side shaft-$158
35 spline outers-$110 for the pair(spicer)
35 spline hubs-$250
new rotors-$150
new calipers-$100
new wheel studs-$35
turned down dually hubs-$100
Spicer 5.86 R&P-$190
Rear FF dana 61-$300(included 35 spline moser shafts)
Spicer 5.86 R&P-$190
ring gear spacer-$50
new spicer carrier-$110
welded 35 spline side gears from front-free
wheel studs-$35
rotors-$60
calipers-$110
weld on brackets-$12
brake lines, fittings, etc-$20
Rockstomper master cylinder kit-$75
Crane cover for front-$180
3 heims and jam nuts for steering-$160
tube for new tie rod/drag link-$50
Driveline adapters from High Angle Driveline-$250
Shorten both driveshafts 3 inches-$100
New wheels from Allied(15x10 beadlocks)-$700
-------------------------------------------

Total-------------------------$4825

Take away what I sold

front 4.88 Toyota/spool-$450
rear 4.88 Toyota/Detroit-$550
high steer-$150
rear housing-$100
front housing-$150
2 longfields-$100
4 Champion beadlocks-$650

Total-----------------------$2150

So that equals about $2675 out of pocket for the dana 60's. You can do it cheaper than that. I tried to think of and include all the little things like brake lines and wheel studs that everyone forgets about(I know I did until I started building them...)
There are other places you can save some cash, for instance I could've run the 4.10's that were in them, that would've saved about $540 dollars for the R&P's and the new carrier for the rear. I could've used stock covers instead of $180 for a Crane(thats a friend deal too, noramally they're $225)
Could've welded the front instaed of $550 for an ARB, I could've saved $360 and kept the perfectly fine 30 spline outers, but I opted not too. Beadlocks aren't a requirement either at $700 for the set, a $200 set of steel wheels would be just fine, could've saved $500 there....

I guess the whole reason I did this is after pricing a high pinion 3rd member, new longs, and ARB, and no guarantees that the R&P would be any stronger than before, it really wasn't a whole lot more expensive. 60's aren't as exotic or expensive as you might think. I think the biggest thing is if you can do the work yourself, like setting the gears, or have a friend that will help you. I could've spent twice that on one Dynatrac frontend, but I built my own front and rear for half that.

Ya, I'd vote for 60's. The unsprung weight they've added, the extra confidence that they most likely will be the LAST thing to break on my truck, the added stability, its worth twice what I paid

Jeremy

 

[rockdog]

WAY to heavy....

NONSENSE Look at the picture to your left. He would be running almost the same truck as mine.Works great. Another thing to consider is the stabilaty(sp)of the full width axles.Also see pic at left,the tire on that tractor is 4 feet high. Try doing that with stock toy axles. I know , my son has em.

 

[RamToy]

I think it comes down to a couple things, are you breaking now and how often if you are? .

I am breaking now. More often than i would like. Ive broken 3 Longfields within 1 year. Plus now that my Yota is no longer my DD i have been driving it harder than i usualy drive it.

 

[RamToy]

.....Ya, I'd vote for 60's. The unsprung weight they've added, the extra confidence that they most likely will be the LAST thing to break on my truck, the added stability, its worth twice what I paid

Jeremy

Thanks for putting that into perspective. I will definatley like the stability they offer.

 

[J Kimmel]

On a side note, I ran all last year with zero breakage. I ran Moab, Montrose, Penrose, and various trails in between. I snapped a sector shaft on my box recently, and I have since fixed that with a new box and a 2" ram assist. Last time out I was wedged pretty good, standing on the nose backing up. I wasn't worried one bit about breaking, actually I was pumped that I could finally steer so well!! Then I snapped the rear output on the t-case just back of the flange, clean off.

No worries about the axles though

 

[rockdog]

On a side note, I ran all last year with zero breakage. I ran Moab, Montrose, Penrose, and various trails in between. I snapped a sector shaft on my box recently, and I have since fixed that with a new box and a 2" ram assist. Last time out I was wedged pretty good, standing on the nose backing up. I wasn't worried one bit about breaking, actually I was pumped that I could finally steer so well!! Then I snapped the rear output on the t-case just back of the flange, clean off.

No worries about the axles though

Wow, I broke a sector shaft too. Went to assist.Now I'm really worried about my t cases. I don't worry about axles either.

 

[RamToy]

No breakage would be nice. But with the 60s i would just be moving the weak point further down the line. And the output/input shaft i hear is always one thing to worry about. Were you running 21 spline or have you upgraded to the 23 spline ??

MmmmmMmmm

 

[J Kimmel]

23 spline throughout. I'm really not concerned about it. I've used and abused it for several years with no failures. I'm going to put in a used one and run it. I figure if it breaks again, I'll get an upgraded shaft from Marlin or Advance, otherwise I'm not really worried.

After it broke I just drove out in front wheel drive, and winched where I had to, its a trailered vehicle so no real concerns for me. I took it apart last night and I'll re-build it this weekend.

 

[RamToy]

23 spline throughout. I'm really not concerned about it. I've used and abused it for several years with no failures.

Used and abused the 23s.. How long have you ran 21 spliners ?? Can i expect those to last ? of course depending on conditions/driving style. But are there a lot of people that have this problem ?? Or just the hardcore skinny-pedel lovers ?? (i put my self somewhat in this category)

 

[RamToy]

I guess the 60. But do the rear too.

I was thinking of running the 14B in the rear... or stick with the TOY. A 60 would be nicer because of the clearance over the 14B. But i already have a 14B locked up that i got for cheap. I think ROCKRUNNER had a 60 up front and a Toy in the rear on his rig. Dont remember how he said the toy rear was holding up.

 

[Hickey]

Before you spend any cash, you should call a few places for prices on your options. Yukon D44 4340 shafts are surprisingly affordable. So are their CTM knockoff joints.

 

[fergusor]

I was thinking of running the 14B in the rear... or stick with the TOY. A 60 would be nicer because of the clearance over the 14B. But i already have a 14B locked up that i got for cheap. I think ROCKRUNNER had a 60 up front and a Toy in the rear on his rig. Dont remember how he said the toy rear was holding up.

we ran that in the comp buggy and still broke alot r&ps and sheared a pinion off.

 

[J Kimmel]

no offense Hickey but add up what it'll cost to build a 44, then add up a 60, I thought at least the choice was pretty clear. I still don't get people building them, but thats another argument.

I've never had 21 spline t-cases, only 23. I can't speak for how well they'd hold up, I only know mine had held up fine. I don't drive with lots of skinny pedal, as you can see from the picture I posted it was pretty bound up, and thats definately not the first time.

We're getting ready to swap a 14b rear and a 60 front into an 82 Toy pickup, so....
I would've run a 14b if I had found one. I built the front with no idea what I was doing for the rear. I explored changing the front to 6 lug, too pricey from what I found. I found a couple 14bolts, but the guys thought they were made of gold or something....then I stumbled across the 61 I have. The previous owner had the spindles bored out, 35 spline moser shafts in it, then figured out it was a 61, not a 60. He was in a hurry, built a 14b instead, sold it to me for the cost of the shafts($300).
A little legwork to figure out what carrier worked so I could run 5.86 gears and voila, thats how I ended up with it.
Again, I would've got a 14b if I had found one for under $300 bucks.

 

[Hickey]

no offense Hickey but add up what it'll cost to build a 44, then add up a 60, I thought at least the choice was pretty clear. I still don't get people building them, but thats another argument.

.

You are free to have an opinion. In stock form, a 60 is definitely stronger than a 44. I have built both though, and building a 60 is not cheap.

 

[J Kimmel]

I know, and a 44 isn't a whole lot cheaper unless its in stock form.
gears are about the same, lockers aren't much less, brakes and bearings aren't much less, ctms or randys u-joints and alloy shafts are not very cheap, how much less are hubs?

 

[Hickey]

I know, and a 44 isn't a whole lot cheaper unless its in stock form.
gears are about the same, lockers aren't much less, brakes and bearings aren't much less, ctms or randys u-joints and alloy shafts are not very cheap, how much less are hubs?

Brakes, bearings, ball joints, steering joints, shafts are ALL cheaper on a D44. Have you called Rocklogic for a price comparison? I know I was pleasantly surprised at how cheap the aftermarket 44 stuff can be.

 

[RamToy]

I plan on keeping the D60 in stock form and slowly upgrading it as needed. The first thing would be just to make it driveable ( Pads, Rotors, ball-joints etc )

Think i will stick the 14B in and shave it some. I came across a 14B for $25 ...... now if i can just get a D60 for that price

 

[fergusor]

what price range are you looking around? I have one

 

[J Kimmel]

Brakes, bearings, ball joints, steering joints, shafts are ALL cheaper on a D44. Have you called Rocklogic for a price comparison? I know I was pleasantly surprised at how cheap the aftermarket 44 stuff can be.

I have not, I have no need to. I know that 1/2 ton stuff is cheaper. Again, its a whole nother argument.

I took the time to list out exactly what I put into mine, both equipment and dollars, and subtract out what I sold. My only point was that when you weigh what it cost to build Toyota stuff, or dana 44 stuff, yes its definately cheaper, I won't argue that but is it really that much cheaper? For me the choice was pretty clear, spend a little more money and forget about it. An entire season of hard wheeling with nothing more than gas for my tow vehicle and smiles the whole time makes it worth it.

We all know 44's are cheaper, but the point of my original post was that for what I built, its really not that bad. Like I said, I could've shaved $1500 off the cost of what I built. I've got a little over $2600 out of pocket into them, I could've done it for a little over a grand?? Front and rear??


How much cheaper would it have been to get 44's instead?

 

[RamToy]

what price range are you looking around? I have one

Im looking in the 5-$800

I have found one for $800, but cheaper is better.


Whatcha got ???