Toyota crossover and caster angles

[Kevin B.]

I finished installing Trailgear high steer a couple days ago. Now that the track bar/dogbone is gone, my caster is several degrees out of whack and I also get some pretty impressive body roll, and between the two my street handling suffers. Solutions I've thought of include reinstalling the sway bar (maybe a beefier one?), rotating the axle with wedges, or building a new track bar (maybe an adjustable one, so I can fine tune the caster by a couple degrees?). I'm definitely not going to go to the bother of cutting and turning the knuckle balls, I'm not going to have this axle that long. I'm also not terribly interested in getting used to it - I liked the way it rode before, I want as much of that back as I can get.

Anything I haven't considered? Opinions on what combination of options will work best?

 

[Marsh99]

Improved sway bars

 

[rockdog]

I'm trying to wrap my mind around why the caster angle would change with a highsteer addition? You have leaf springs, right?

 

[Rot Box]

On my 79 I made custom length front shackles to provide the angle I needed for the steering and also eliminate the need for wedge shims. In the end they are very close to stock length but just long enough to not bottom out on the frame while flexing. Everyones needs will be different and everything factors in like spring length/height and how low the front hanger sits but I think that is a good option for getting that angle squared away. Do you get death wobble?

If you can get away with a stock sway bar I think that might be a good option. Some poly bushings (energy, super pro etc) would help and options for quick release are out there as well..

 

[ricsrx]

I have had to add wedge shims to every SAS i have completed. to get rid of death wobble, dial in caster alingment and pinion angle.

 

[Kevin B.]

Improved sway bars

Were you rocking a beefier sway bar on your first gen? Did you make it, or was it aftermarket?

I'm trying to wrap my mind around why the caster angle would change with a highsteer addition? You have leaf springs, right?

Yeah, it's leaf sprung. With the lift springs and longer shackles, the track bar was all that was keeping the axle from rotating back, and I cut out the track bar when I plated the frame. It's not the high steer itself that changed the caster, just the result of the high steer install.

On my 79 I made custom length front shackles to provide the angle I needed for the steering and also eliminate the need for wedge shims. In the end they are very close to stock length but just long enough to not bottom out on the frame while flexing. Everyones needs will be different and everything factors in like spring length/height and how low the front hanger sits but I think that is a good option for getting that angle squared away. Do you get death wobble?

If you can get away with a stock sway bar I think that might be a good option. Some poly bushings (energy, super pro etc) would help and options for quick release are out there as well..

No, no death wobble yet. I can rock a stock sway bar I'm sure, I'll just need to run longer links. Thanks for bringing up the front hanger, though, I hadn't thought of that. I'm using 6" shackles for a touch of extra lift, but dropping the front hanger would let me beef it up and run shorter shackles to boot, I could solve several problems at once there.

I have had to add wedge shims to every SAS i have completed. to get rid of death wobble, dial in caster alingment and pinion angle.

I'm kinda thinking wedges are going to be my best bet, too, at least short term.

Thanks fellas. If anybody has more input, keep it coming.

 

[Rot Box]

6" (assuming hole to hole) is a pretty long shackle if the front hanger is anywhere near the stock location. I've seen a few times where welding a bar between the two parallels on each side has helped a lot with handling on Toyotas with longer shackles. Doing that actually cured the death wobble on my brothers truck when everything else we tried didn't.

Try the shims or try some shorter shackles I'll bet you see a noticeable difference. For reference my shackles are 3 3/4" hole to hole and my hanger sits ~3/8" closer to the frame (higher) than stock.

 

[Marsh99]

Were you rocking a beefier sway bar on your first gen? Did you make it, or was it aftermarket?

I learned to love the sway, but I only had 2 inches of up travel in the front.

 

[Karnage Fab]

add a trail gear front leafspring hanger, or build your own. the stock one will crack apart eventually anyway, and the tg one gives a bit of a lift and will help with the caster issue by pitching the axle down a few degrees

 

[ricsrx]

6" (assuming hole to hole) is a pretty long shackle if the front hanger is anywhere near the stock location. I've seen a few times where welding a bar between the two parallels on each side has helped a lot with handling on Toyotas with longer shackles. Doing that actually cured the death wobble on my brothers truck when everything else we tried didn't. QUOTE]

How long were the shackles on your brothers truck, I am still not able to eliminate 100% death wobble on my brothers truck i just finished last week, Just a slight wobble for a second if the bumps are hit just right, I thouht maybe the stering box had play in it.

 

[Marsh99]

add a trail gear front leafspring hanger, or build your own. the stock one will crack apart eventually anyway, and the tg one gives a bit of a lift and will help with the caster issue by pitching the axle down a few degrees

X2

 

[cruiseroutfit]

What does your caster measure now?

 

[Kevin B.]

5*, plus or minus?

 

[Rot Box]

How long were the shackles on your brothers truck

Good question. I don't think they were less than 5" or more than 6". He welded a 1/4" thick plate to the back of the shackle towards the bottom (towards the spring) to hold the parallels together vs. welding a bar in-between. In this case welding a bar in-between would have been more likely to bottom out on the frame whereas the plate could sit lower down on the shackle giving a bit more clearance. Does that make sense? It went from scary to problem solved when everything else checked out fine.

 

[AddictedOffroad]

4.5-5" shackle will pull the caster back to 4* where you want it. That is not the issue with the body roll though. You can tighten up the shackles a little more, but it sounds like you need new shocks. I have done 60+ SAS's rigs. Never needed a sway bar on any of them. Caster was all within spec as well. As mentioned, the TG front spring hanger is a must on 85 and earlier rigs. It also give an inch of lift and keeps the caster in check as well.

 

[sabatoa1]

I believe that stock caster angle is 6* and 2X on you should not need to run front sway bar. How stiff your ride is also depends on what lift springs you are running some springs are designed to be soft for comfort. If you are not getting death wobble you should be close enough to not have to worry about changing any angles. Do not run wedges on your front axle, all they will do is cause problems with clearance on your high steer.

 

[ricsrx]

If you are not getting death wobble you should be close enough to not have to worry about changing any angles. Do not run wedges on your front axle, all they will do is cause problems with clearance on your high steer.

I agree with you on the "no death wobble, then your good", but on the wedges, it seams out of the SAS's i have worked on, every truck has been diferent depending on the spring hanger and the shackles that were used and how far forward we moved the front axel. but i have not ran into clearance problems with the high steer due to using them..