track width legality

ZUKEYPR

Registered User
Does anyone know of any discrepancies between "current" traffic safety codes and the Safety inspection manual in regards to altering track width. Example does anyone seen any legality issue on placing an axle on my rig that is far wider than the stock axle provided that the top of the tire is covered, 50% of the back of the tire is covered and 100% of the width? Why I would due this, how I would do this, what type of vehicle I would do this with is all dictum. I just don't want to complete this project only to find out that it is going to make me street illegal. This is my daily driver.
 

Tacoma

Et incurventur ante non
Location
far enough away
Hmmmm that's an excellent question. Thinking about it, wider track= more stability, and given that only small "sketchy" 4x4's are small enough to HAVE the track widened much, I can't see how the authorities could object to a safer vehicle.

but that's not necessarily how the law sees it.. :D
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
From what I have read (and how I'm building my YJ), you need to have fender coverage (100%) via flare or whatever and the 50% mentioned mudflaps. As long as you're narrower than an H1, I think you're OK.

I'd check with the dudes that will be inspecting your vehicle and make sure you adhere to their interpretation.
 

Coreshot

Resident Thread Killer
Location
SL,UT
I'm sure you'll be legal as long as you are not over 8'6" (the max width for any vehicle or trailer) to the very widest points on your vehicle. The tire coverage rules obviously apply.
 

fattodog

frame cracks= More flex!!
Location
Roy, Utah
Tacoma said:
Hmmmm that's an excellent question. Thinking about it, wider track= more stability, and given that only small "sketchy" 4x4's are small enough to HAVE the track widened much, I can't see how the authorities could object to a safer vehicle.

but that's not necessarily how the law sees it.. :D

and then Johnny Law enters stage left! :mad2:
I did an axle swap on my CJ7 upgraded to D60 front and C14 rear (cut down of course). My tires extended past the body of the jeep five inches. I ran into UHP officer whom we will call "JL" and he showed me the regs as I sat in the cruiser on the side of the road early one saturday morning after a night of vodka consumption. I was informed that the tires cannot stick out past the body and whoever is giving the false info that fender flares covering tires sticking out past the body is full of shat! Then, "JL" stated that the whole vehicle was, and I directly quote, "really nicely built but about as legal as smoking pot in a court room!"
Yes the wider stance is safer and the bigger axles have better braking capabilities and overall the Jeep is safer than alot of the vehicles limping around on the road these days but Utah Lawmakers don't give a flying fack what we as builders think. All they seem to care about is "License and Registration Please!" We all know that in an accident we would be well protected but they don't see it that way.
long story long, I ended up getting a fix-it ticket and a police escort back to my garage :( and a good talking to in front of my house so all the neighbors who LOVE me sooo much, could see what was going on! heck of a way to spend a beautiful sunny weekend!!
Good luck with your build-up. KENNETH !!
 
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spencurai

Purple Burglar Alarm
Location
WVC,UT
hmmmm that sounds fishy. Every inspection tech and every police officer that has ever pulled me over has said get wide fender flares and mud flaps.

the other thing that I have been told is that the bumper must extend to the trackwidth of the vehicle. This is not as redily prosecuted but it is something to think about.

I would say, do your swap, cover your tires and get a good current 2k5 copy of the regulations as the UHP guys sometimes still want to break out the slide rule and protractor to figure your lift legality.
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
spencurai said:
................I would say, do your swap, cover your tires and get a good current 2k5 copy of the regulations as the UHP guys sometimes still want to break out the slide rule and protractor to figure your lift legality.


That's kind of my thoughts. We'll see how it goes.
 

kobyhud

Lurker
Location
Lindon, UT
If you make it to the end of this post, I hope you are more informed about our state laws and other such matters. I cannot of myself determine if this post will be worth the read. I truly believe it is and hope you will spend the time necessary to understand and read the links which I have given.

This is an interesting subject, and one that has made me angry for quite some time. Quite possibly the reason why you asked about it Mr. ZUKEYPR AKA Jeff.

Most lifted jeeps especially the Strangler variety do not cover the entire width of the tire with fenders or flares (not all just most, and I watch carefully cuz it is a pet peeve). But nonetheless I see them all over the road. I haven't had such luck with my SAS Rodeo (I call it my truck I am certain some will make fun of it but that is for another day), they really like to get me because I am a bit different, and every officer I see on the road follows my truck with their eyes checking for flaps and height and all, oftentimes they pull Uies and follow me until they see my flaps and current registration. I get secret satisfaction when they turn back around because I am perfectly legal.

On to my real comments....

Here is the link to the page where you can download the Utah Highway Patrol inspection manual. It clearly outlines that the tires must be covered for the full width of the tire, and for the rear tires the entire width of the tire must be covered and 50% of the height must also be covered but fenders or flaps. It also clearly states a lot of things that I think they have no right to decide.

http://safetyinspections.utah.gov/manuals/

Nonetheless, if you read the actual laws ..
This is a link to all of the current Motor Vehicle laws.
http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE41/TITLE41.htm
This is a link to what I am copying here.
http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE41/htm/41_04200.htm
(2) If the wheel track is increased beyond the O.E.M. specification, the top 50% of the tires shall be covered by the original fenders, by rubber, or other flexible fender extenders under any loading condition.

This rather unclearly states that the top /-----\ of the tire must be covered if the wheel track has been modified. Wheel track definition can be found in the earlier links but means the distance from center of one tire to the center of the other tire on the same axle.

This would mean that all four of the tires must have mudflaps... so we read on!!!
http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE41/htm/41_04205.htm
(2) (a) Except as provided in Subsections (3) and (4), when operated on a highway, the following vehicles shall be equipped with wheel covers, mudguards, flaps, or splash aprons behind the rearmost wheels to prevent, as far as practicable, the wheels from throwing dirt, water, or other materials on other vehicles:
(i) a vehicle that has been altered:
(A) from the original manufacturer's frame height; or
(B) in any other manner so that the motor vehicle's wheels may throw dirt, water, or other materials on other vehicles;
(ii) any truck with a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,500 pounds or more;
(iii) any truck tractor; and
(iv) any trailer or semitrailer with an unladen weight of 750 pounds or more.
(b) The wheel covers, mudguards, flaps, or splash aprons shall:
(i) be at least as wide as the tires they are protecting;
(ii) be directly in line with the tires; and
This means that a mudflap has to be installed on all lifted vehicles on the rear axle and must be inline with the tires.

The only COP out is this phrase.
(b) is registered as a vintage vehicle;;
You can go as wide as you WANT on a vintage vehicle without covering the tires wahoo!! There are some other restrictions for vintage vehicles but I won't go into that. Mostly the big problem is that you can only run them during the daylight, which just aint good enough for me so I didn't bother going that route.

Alright so this is where the real meat comes in.
Except as provided in Subsection (4), rear wheels not covered at the top by fenders, bodies, or other parts of the vehicle shall be covered at the top by protective means extending rearward at least to the center line of the rearmost axle.

This says that the top of the tires must be covered by fenders or bodies all the way from the centerline of the rear most axle. Ie from the center of the hub, all the way back. Not actually forward (interesting but not useful because that would be an ugly fender or fender flare to only go half of the fender).

So anyhow, these laws kinda contradict themselves in that the original Prohibition states that all four tires must be covered at the top 50% (WIDTH or tread is never mentioned interestingly enough), then the other one says, hey don't worry about it just make sure that the top 50% is covered on the rear wheels by mud flaps and fender extenders all the way to the centerline of the rear axle.

So what it all means, is....
1, utah legislators aren't sure what they are doing. (Ok that is a given we already knew that)....
2. The utah highway patrol gets to decide whatever the crap THEY want is safe because they write the inspection manual. BTW said Manual does not correctly quote and reference these laws and prohibitions very well or properly and of course COUNTLESS/NUMBERLESS items are put into that manual which are not directly nor indirectly mentioned in any of the laws or prohibitions. IE, what the crap you can't have play in your steering wheel ?? Oh yeah you are the highway patrol you can do whatever you want!
3. We should all move to california where there is no safety inspection because if you pass SMOG (strict emissions test) you can drive anything on the road. I wonder if they did this because they were sick and tired of whining and decided that they would actually get the bad guys instead of pulling over us VILE offroaders. But those are just my musings.

As for the earlier question about bumpers..
http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE41/htm/41_04201.htm
41-6-148.33. Bumpers.
(1) Every motor vehicle shall be equipped with a bumper on both front and rear of the vehicle, except those that were not originally designed or manufactured with a bumper or bumpers.
(2) (a) On all motor vehicles under 15,000 GVWR, bumpers shall be:
(i) at least 4.5 inches in vertical height;
(ii) centered on the vehicle's center line; and
(iii) extend no less than the width of the respective wheel track distance.
This rather clearly answers any questions about bumpers, the bumper has to go to the centerline of the tires and must be centered on the vehicle (I dunno if I have ever seen a bumper that wasnt centered but ok!!)

There you have it. The laws are unclear and contradict themselves, I vote we just have to have mudflaps on the rear wheels that are in line with the tires.... and darn all of the fender flares altogether. That is how I would LIKE to interpret that.

My honest opinion is that if someone were willing to go to court and fight this bad boy they could easily win because of how vague the laws are. Ultimately I believe it isn't the utah highway patrol's business, that is what needs to come out of such a case, but it would take some serious fighting to get this to happen in a state court. Ultimately no one would be on your side excepting a bunch of what most judges consider to be a bunch of Keg partying hooligans. Such hooligans also aren't as active in their communities as they could or should be and most are so cheap they wouldn't pay a lawyer to help our cause anyway.

Well I have tried to impart quite a bit of information here, I hope it is all good and valid. Thanks for hearing me out!
 
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Shawn

Just Hanging Out
Location
Holly Day
kobyhud, I really enjoyed reading this novel :) you have done your homework!


On a side note, I have spoke with a UHP and he told me that he was more worried about people doing axle swaps that couldn't weld worth a sh!t. More so, doing a SOA swap where it requires welding on new purches.
 

fattodog

frame cracks= More flex!!
Location
Roy, Utah
Carrying the Book

So, If we carry these downloaded regulations, memorize the good stuff, we should get a no expenses paid trip to the court house! Guess I better get a trailer!! Thanks for the info Kobyhud!! KENNETH !!
 

spencurai

Purple Burglar Alarm
Location
WVC,UT
excellent read...BTW, I just got my vehicle inspected and emished...I know damn well everything that my vehicle has wrong with it and am always prepared to get out the wrenches and start fixing things.

Around here in Weber county, if you stay off the stomping grounds for the UHP like the freeway, you will do good with a set of big nasty mud flaps. Mud flaps without adequate fender flares can be overlooked in my opinion....and this is why....

IF you have a pimp ass rig and you desecrate the style with trucker mudflaps, it shows the law enforcement personel that you are TRYING. You are not shirking the law, like I presently am, by running a lifted vehicle without extensive fender flares or mud flaps.

In the end, even if the officer is riding your ass, always be cool with them. They take a lot of crap all day long and if you are nice and understanding and willing to cooperate with the law, they usually see that.

now...off to the garage to make a removable mud flap rig.....and weld on my traction bar....and re-seal my short shaft....and build some rock sliders....
 

kobyhud

Lurker
Location
Lindon, UT
Shawn said:
On a side note, I have spoke with a UHP and he told me that he was more worried about people doing axle swaps that couldn't weld worth a sh!t. More so, doing a SOA swap where it requires welding on new purches.


No doubt, thats me! As in one of those people doing axle swaps who can't weld very guud. Naw seriously I can understand what your UHP friend is saying. But that is the kinda stuff that is impossible to check put in a manual.
I definently don't want to advocate drive at your own risk, I like that the inspector has to decide whether or not something is truly road worthy in the very end, it is a good policy. Also it is good that when an inspector fails something and someone else passes something both inspectors are responsible and the state knows about it. Ie. I fail, they fill out a fail certificate and it goes to the state, if someone else passes me then both folks can get phone calls and follow ups, and neither of them wants to have their licenses revoked. It keeps everybody honest and accountable. This was something I didn't know until Todd Adams explained it to us.
 

Tacoma

Et incurventur ante non
Location
far enough away
VERY informative thank you... I was about to post that UT code is online for the most part and search it... but you beat me to it!

All this stuff makes me happy I have M-Series Jeeps. They came from the factory w/big GVW's, giving me good lift law, and have huge fender flares, meaning I can run fullwidth GM axles and 12.5's without trouble. :D

Practically? I've been stopped a couple times for no flaps on my wife's XJ.. once we got let go as we were on the way to the hospital for my son's birth, the other I just got a warning. My impression was that it's not a huge deal. I did ask about flares the second time, officer said as long as the tire's covered.
Flaps are a good idea, polite. We dont' need to be cracking car windshields with errant rocks. And quick-change brackets aren't that hard to make.
 

ZUKEYPR

Registered User
Koby, your killing me my Zu'tah Brother :rofl: I knew all that, I was just trying to keep it simple.

BTW, If anyone laughed at your rig, they sure as hell wouldn't after they had seen what it could do............dare to be different. ;)

But being that you completely opened up this can of worms riddle me this batman............Why can you "legally" have a 3 inch body lift, but you cannot "legally pass inspection? What do I mean? A 3 inch body consists of a 3 inch puck that is installed on top of your body bushing. In the case of my rig the body bushing is approx 1.5 inches. Based on the current traffic code and saftey inspection manual they measure it; one from the frame to the body below the drivers side door & the other from frame to the body at the point of the mount. Either way they allow 3 inches. With that measuring system on my rig you will get 4.5 inches and therefore be illegal. That's my pet peeve! :mad2: Now add insult to injury if you were to measure a stock Ford pickup in the same manner you will find that you exceed the 3 inch law as well.

As for the law enforcement side of this equation, I used to be an LEO. Most of it is an ignorance of the law. Example: An LEO in Utah cannot enforce their safety vehicle code requirements on a vehicle that is licensed legally from a different state. However, this occurs all the time, especially in the Grand County area. The problem is most rather pay the ticket as to opposed to driving back to Utah to fight it. I have had two of my buds in this exact situation and convinced them both to come back and fight it. They both one! Second example of ignorance; If I am going to issue you a citation for exceeding the posted speed limit using a radar tracking device (mst of your BFE towns still use this system) you must be exceeding that posted speed limit by at least 6 miles per hour as well as I cannot clock you 500 feet prior to or after a posted speed limit change. These are all federal laws folks.

Anyway, hopefully one day you will be passed by a full width axled crawler and you will say to yourself "What the bloody !$@%$ was that" then you'll reply "HollY $hit it's a Passport! Yeah Baby :D
 
R

rockdog

Guest
I think most uhp officers don't know or fully understand vehicle alteration laws. After reading it myself, I can't understand it clearly. Case in point. A few years ago my son wanted to buy a fairly nice lifted k5. I wanted to make sure before he did that he would'nt be hasseled by john law. So I went to the uhp headquarters in utah county to get the scoup on what was legal. They (the uhp themselves) could'nt give me an answer!
 

kobyhud

Lurker
Location
Lindon, UT
Ya I knew you knew that stuff, but I figured for the point of discussion I might as well make my first post to the rockymoutain extreme board and break the ice.
 

Rusted

Let's Ride!
Supporting Member
Location
Sandy
Ever notice how all of the H1 and H2's have yellow marker lights over the cab? Also all of the dually pickups have them, and the new rear steer Chevy trucks have them as well. The yellow over-cab markers are required by federal law to be there because of their extra vehicle width. I am not sure where the width cut off is, but I understand that the rear steer Chevy's are close to being legal, but just over the limit.
I have never heard or seen the yellow light topic brought up in Utah law, and it *may* only apply to newer cars. But that is another possible kink to going wider track on a 4x4. A full width axle, with little wider tires may fall into that category.
 
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