trail etiquette on pritchett canyon

[rondo]

This has been bugging me since i've been back from Moab. My small group went to Pritchett and found ourselves behind two groups. Here is my issue and i'd like to know everyone's opinions.

1st group, 3 jeeps, fairly built but drivers were obviously lacking confidence and ability. None of them drove with dignity but for example, 1 guy insisted on winching up chewey without even really trying it although he had an unlimited, built, locked, etc.
the problem: I don't care about all that, but why not let other groups pass if you're going to fart around?

2nd group, a 4x4 club that had some hard core in the group no question with a couple buggies and a couple of superbuilt this and that. However they also had some people witht mild jeeps that acted completely overwhelmed by the trail, the size of the obstacles, etc. there seemed to be what i detected was a 'leader' in the group, very experienced and was the main spotter.

the problem: this group wouldn't let us pass (but table that for a second) and they insisted on getting all their guys to drive every obstacle, and from what i could tell you had a couple 3 drivers that looked scared shatless and should have winched. The spotting was sketchy and the spotter just flat out put them in a dangerous situation. There was 1 place where i thought the old guy in his 60s was going to roll his YJ and by some miracle he didn't. Foolishness.

We kept quiet and waited patiently. But should we have intervened? Or what do you guys think was proper trail manners?

 

[Dirty Harry]

So you are upset because one group winched and upset because the other group didn't? I understand that the main issue is not letting you pass, but if the first group wanted to just winch up everything I'd think that was much less of an inconvenience to you than ten attempts at an obstacle and then breaking in the middle of the trail (which seems to be more common in my experience). Did you ever ask if they would mind if you got in front of them?

 

[LT.]

It is hard to say because we only have a one dimensional view of the scenario. I would much rather have someone winch than break or worse roll over in the trail. So it took them a little longer, that is okay, better that than the alternative. As far a letting you pass, yep, it may have been polite but, that trail gets narrow in some spots. I guess again, I would rather wait my turn than risk someone going off trail just to let me pass. As for the other group again, hard to say, perhaps the spotter did know what they were doing and the driver was looking for a little thrill. All in all you may have been a little delayed but, that is part of four wheeling. Relax, enjoy some of the beauty of the area. It is much better than a day at the office. I know how you feel to some degree. I am always in a hurry to get as much wheeling done in as short of a time. I guess I want to fill my day with wheeling. I have been blessed with good friends while wheeling that have had enough patience to try and teach me to slow it down and enjoy all that is around. Not just wheeling.

LT.

 

[jackjoh]

Too many unknowns. It would be beneficial to get the three groups together to discuss if possible. Your main question answer: Ask to play through or offer help.

 

[Spork]

... Or what do you guys think was proper trail manners?

You needed popcorn... Unless you were going to do something you might as well have enjoyed the show.

Jerks can be all over. You just have to relax and enjoy yourself. A couple years back I went with a group from work to Moab, Coming down off of Gold bar in a narrow section a group from NAXJA caught up to us. (NAXJA convention was that weekend and they all had NAXJA stickers all over their cherokees) It was too narrow for them to pass our half dozen vehicles in this area so we kept going and when it got wide enough we pulled over and let them by. You would think they had been following us for the whole trail or something, full throttle, gravel flying, I think the only thing missing on the pass was a middle finger salute. This may have been an isolated incident but when someone says jerks on the trails I think of NAXJA.

Personally, I think a simple how ya doing? and asking if they want to get by goes a long way. Or if you catch up to a group then some small talk so they know you are there helps.

 

[X1994J]

You needed popcorn... Unless you were going to do something you might as well have enjoyed the show.

Jerks can be all over. You just have to relax and enjoy yourself. A couple years back I went with a group from work to Moab, Coming down off of Gold bar in a narrow section a group from NAXJA caught up to us. (NAXJA convention was that weekend and they all had NAXJA stickers all over their cherokees) It was too narrow for them to pass our half dozen vehicles in this area so we kept going and when it got wide enough we pulled over and let them by. You would think they had been following us for the whole trail or something, full throttle, gravel flying, I think the only thing missing on the pass was a middle finger salute. This may have been an isolated incident but when someone says jerks on the trails I think of NAXJA.

Personally, I think a simple how ya doing? and asking if they want to get by goes a long way. Or if you catch up to a group then some small talk so they know you are there helps.

So.... you're going to start pointing fingers? starting with NAXJA? You pulled over to let them by, and now you're pissed they didn't take their time going past??

 

[4x4_Welder]

I used to be on NAXJA, sounds about right for that crowd.
I do think popcorn and a video camera would have been good accessories for the op's experience. Make up a "what not to do" documentary, maybe they would have not liked being filmed and just let you go.

 

[rondo]

thx for the replys. I guess it's hard to be clear online.

I was having a great time and i'm by no means upset or mad at anyone.

DH i also saw the inconsistency in what i wrote so let me be clear; the first group that winched was only 3 rigs (i'm sure you read that). So if they are going to winch, and they know they are slow, why not let others pass? I admit the group behind them was large and they figured it was a wash.

yes we did visit with the second group cordially. (all day in fact while we waited and waited and waited for them). For the record they are very nice folk.

yes we asked to pass and 'they' declined. I mean is there really a chain of command or a pharoah in a group that you can just ask? We really didn't take the time to ask every man and woman in the group. The thing with this second group is they would NOT winch.
I think they should have let us pass since we are only 3 built rigs and we would have finished the trail 2 hours ahead of them.

LT- i agree with you. the place we wanted to pass was chewey where there was sufficient room.

I guess the real issue that i have is 'lack of' safety from this second larger group. As i mentioned, some close calls/near rollovers by unprepared drivers and lack of leadership on their part. Poor decision making? By insisting everyone drive the obstacles when its dangerous.

 

[Dirty Harry]

I guess the real issue that i have is 'lack of' safety from this second larger group. As i mentioned, some close calls/near rollovers by unprepared drivers and lack of leadership on their part. Poor decision making? By insisting everyone drive the obstacles when its dangerous.

Agreed that is annoying and can turn a nice day into an all-night event. I am surprised that they would not let you pass when you asked though, I haven't had that happen to me much in the past. I would agree that it is selfish to spend a bunch of time on obstacles and expect you to wait for them while they do it. :-\

 

[Spork]

So.... you're going to start pointing fingers? starting with NAXJA? You pulled over to let them by, and now you're pissed they didn't take their time going past??

I must have totally misunderstood the intentions of these fine outstanding members. I have totally changed my mind about NAXJA and wish to offer my apologies to all NAXJA members past, present, and future about my perceived impression of this group. How dare I think that they weren't looking out for my best interest by going by as fast as their XJ would take them so I didn't have to wait an additional 10 seconds. The dust, dirt and gravel were their desire that I enjoy Moab as much as them. I'll take the nice cloud of Red dirt with me always and treasure my chance meeting with this fine organization.

 

[Greg]

I must have totally misunderstood the intentions of these fine outstanding members. I have totally changed my mind about NAXJA and wish to offer my apologies to all NAXJA members past, present, and future about my perceived impression of this group. How dare I think that they weren't looking out for my best interest by going by as fast as their XJ would take them so I didn't have to wait an additional 10 seconds. The dust, dirt and gravel were their desire that I enjoy Moab as much as them. I'll take the nice cloud of Red dirt with me always and treasure my chance meeting with this fine organization.

 

[XJEEPER]

You needed popcorn... Unless you were going to do something you might as well have enjoyed the show.

Jerks can be all over. You just have to relax and enjoy yourself. A couple years back I went with a group from work to Moab, Coming down off of Gold bar in a narrow section a group from NAXJA caught up to us. (NAXJA convention was that weekend and they all had NAXJA stickers all over their cherokees) It was too narrow for them to pass our half dozen vehicles in this area so we kept going and when it got wide enough we pulled over and let them by. You would think they had been following us for the whole trail or something, full throttle, gravel flying, I think the only thing missing on the pass was a middle finger salute. This may have been an isolated incident but when someone says jerks on the trails I think of NAXJA.

Personally, I think a simple how ya doing? and asking if they want to get by goes a long way. Or if you catch up to a group then some small talk so they know you are there helps.

Sorry you had that experience with NAXJA (not that it matters, but I'm a founding member) and that's not how I roll, nor is it a behavior promoted or condoned by the organization.

Don't judge the entire organization by the actions of a few.....doing so makes one no different than the SUWA and Sierra Club folk lumping all offroaders together with a few rogue punks who learned to wheel by watching truck commercials and drive wherever they feel like it, as fast as they can. Remembering the FJ driver that was making high speed passes thru Forest Lake a few years back......that incident doesn't make all FJ drivers jackasses.

I have no issues with letting a faster, smaller group play through. I also don't think I'm out of line by offering my advice and assistance when I come across a group or individual that is putting themselves or their rig in harms way.

I can think of several occasion in Moab where I could have just set back "with the popcorn" and watched someone thrash or flop their rig, or worse..... but when they are obviously operating outside of their skill level, I've felt compelled to approach them and offer advice which would prevent them from doing harm to themselves or their rig. In each instance, I've been thanked for helping.

YMMV

:>)

 

[Unimog]

My opinion as far as etiquette is it is first come, first served. If you ask and they are moving, it is completely up to them whether to let you play through. Different issue if they are repairing/lunching/talking. There are other issues to consider: The size of their group, the size of other groups, how many groups visible behind you? Common courtesy and patience should be the rule on both sides.

I've pretty much got over the issue of waiting for other rigs by changing my own attitude. Look at it as a chance to get to know the guys in front.

One thing that really pisses me off is when drivers or groups act like they have "earned the right" to pass through their driving ability or because of how capable their rig is or some other issue. This really puts a bad light on our sport for newcomers, especially on busy weekends in Moab.

My bigger dilemma is with bad spotting. Nothing drives me nuts like having 5 people yelling at the driver, telling him what to do when he already has a spotter that he knows and probably trusts. That being said, if the main spotter is leading the guy way wrong, I think it is incumbent on you to politely let the spotter know. This is really a touchy issue with some folks.

 

[Herzog]

Agreed.

Also, Naxja is good people for the most part. Just like any group, there are bad apples and they usually get the most attention.

Pritchett is such a highly traveled trail anymore... when we group up to go on that trail we try to go on a day that will have minimal traffic. That's the best advice I can give for that trail.

 

[SmokinCamel]

Biggest thing that get me on the trails is the issue with drivers not sticking with their rigs. It takes alot to keep a good size group moving. But when someone is watching others go through an obsticle and his rig is not keeping the flow going. There has been a few times where a rig has no one in it and its blocking the trail and the driver is 2 obsticles in front. There is nothing wrong with watching, just know whats going on.

I would take a group winching then a group going off the trail cause they can't make it. If time is an issue, then head out earlyer. We always plan a full day for any trail we do. Even Rattlesnake and Constrictor.

 

[Kyle]

I have had the same problem in the past. a group of wheelers spent two hours trying to get up rocker knocker . we kindly asked them if we could pass. they told us if we think we can make it go ahead. we walked 8 vehicles up rocker knocker in ten minutes.and they still talked crap about all our rigs.whats up with that our group 10 minutes and theirs 2 hours no rigs.

 

[utah340six]

you know there ar a--holes, and then there are a--holes.
but they sould of let you pass when asked.
as for the first 3 they may of waited for some one also.
chewey can be a pain.
BUT WERE THERE TO ENJOY>
so lets felax and have fun.
waiting never killed anyone.
yes?????

 

[Bart]

I have had the same problem in the past. a group of wheelers spent two hours trying to get up rocker knocker . we kindly asked them if we could pass. they told us if we think we can make it go ahead. we walked 8 vehicles up rocker knocker in ten minutes.and they still talked crap about all our rigs.whats up with that our group 10 minutes and theirs 2 hours no rigs.

We had a similar wait only the group in front of us included Walker Evans and entourage. He walked up it, but everyone else had problems and there was a camera crew with them. We were 4 rigs and after they were through and before they could get in their rigs we were up and past them. It was funny. Then they got pissed when we were waiting for another group at the Rock Pile but in front of them.

 

[SAMI]

^ I had almost brought up Evans earlier, but didn't because my post became more of a rant for his driving off the trail..

 

[Unimog]

We had a similar wait only the group in front of us included Walker Evans and entourage. He walked up it, but everyone else had problems and there was a camera crew with them. We were 4 rigs and after they were through and before they could get in their rigs we were up and past them. It was funny. Then they got pissed when we were waiting for another group at the Rock Pile but in front of them.

No offense personally, but this is one of the issues I have with people playing through. On a busy trail day with many groups on a trail, you inevitably end up waiting for the group that just passed you as they wait behind the group that was ahead of you. At some point it becomes akin to the idiot weaving in and out of traffic on the freeway to get two cars ahead of you. Better to have a little patience and enjoy the ride!