tread lightly discussion...

[Jinx]

Ok, in an effort to have an open discussion about trail etiquette and skip the pointing finger game I am starting this post.

I guess the main reason am starting this is to come to a conclusion in a "nice" way about what is "ok" and what isn't in trail manners. We all have way too much invested in toys to have the trails that are open to be closed down, but at the same time at what point are we, speaking as a group as a whole, closing trails by our own actions.

Just to state my position so my bias will be known, I think I sit little farther on the keep trails open, stay on the trails side of things. "Stay on the trail, leave trees, bushes, greenery untouched, but it is acceptable to trim over growth and fallen trees as part of trail maintenance, if there is a recovery that needs you to leave the trail do it with minimal impact, but I am hoping to hear what others have to say, to illustrate, educate and hopefully keep things open...

Here is the scenario (like I said before skipping finger pointing, names, etc.) being told from my point of view, which like I stated before is BIASED, please feel free to add where you feel necessary:

A group of set up rigs having a great day on the trail in a NOT open travel area. I am noticing "new" lines on a old trail that appear to be SXS lines and thinking to myself, that isn't good... See before stated bias...

Last major obstacle comes up and it is one of those difficult for most but with the quality of rigs in the group there were several who made it in the first or second shot, and a newbie driver (my wife) taking the strap. When I see one of the nicer rigs back down off the obstacle and square up on "different" line. I am thinking ok, maybe that is a line. My guess it might have been a SXS line some time in the past, it was pretty gnarly. He hits it with a couple good tries, notices he is starting to tear things up a little, vegetation, getting close to bushes, etc. backs off and goes on his way up the traditional line.

A couple of other rigs go up the traditional line when the itch gets too strong for one of the drivers (driver #2) to pass up the New Line. After trying several different lines, going way beyond the first guys approach line, taking out most greenery in the little bowl, he makes it on top. Cool. I was thinking that wasn't good, but I was chasing my kids and there really wasn't an opportunity to talk to the driver about what was going on. When I was walking back to my jeep I heard a crunch and turned around to see this guy pushing over a tree to get back to the original trail. I looked at the guy standing next to me (driver #3) and said, "he didn't figure out if there was a out before he made it up there???" All the guy, who was tree crushers buddy, could say was, "hey someone else had done it before", at which point I mentioned it was "bad trail etiquette" he shrugs then he proceeded to do the same thing... Tearing things up, launching his rig on top of something that there wasn't a way out of until he and his buddy made one.

Until seeing this I couldn't see/understand in my mind who would/could have messed up the Eagles Nest like it has been, and I am not saying these guys did it, but these guys were hell bent on making a line regardless of collateral damage, no talking to them at the time would have changed their minds.

All of this being said, these were nice guys. Not running on alcohol or something stupid. Prior to this I would have gone out of my way to catch a trail with them down the road, still probably would. I am just wondering in my head if playing with awesomely set up equipment in open travel areas like Sand Hollow has made them calloused to what is acceptable for traditional trails.

Tread lightly says to take pictures of plates and report to authorities, I have pictures of their OHV plates and there is more than enough video of said climbs, (please don't post these if you have these videos, the world doesn't need to see the mess this was) but I am hoping this discussion will be used for a more positive means to correct the issue.

I am also hoping as this discussion goes on it will help to illustrate, in my opinion, bad trail manners that if go uncorrected will lead to closed trails...

So lets discuss, am I the only one that thinks this behavior will lead to closed trails and hurt our sport? Are there any details that I am missing?

 

[mbryson]

I'm a fan of staying well within the established trail and staying on the actual historic trail when known/allowed

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Well, Tread Lightly has a pretty simple core principle mantra:

Travel Responsibly
Respect the Rights of Others
Educate Yourself
Avoid Sensitive Areas
Do Your Part

If the area is in fact not open to cross-country travel, i.e. limited to existing routes only, then it is uncouth and not of sound outdoor ethic to scout new obstacles or high-mark, particularly when it damages trees, etc and further promotes the use of the new route for future travelers.

But, as always there is going to be much grey area. For example the 5PM pass area. While much of it is in open cross-country travel, the RS/Con areas are not so they would theoretically default to designated routes only. However the BLM is 10+ years behind in their RMP (Resource Management Plan, the BLM process for allocating trail access, usage, etc) for that particular area and thus their current route inventory pre-dates even Rattlesnake and Constrictor let alone all of the new routes out there. Keep in mind they are 100% up to speed that RS/Con are heavily used trails and have been participants in cleanups, car removals and events that utilize said trails... so they are not exactly looking to hold anyone to the "letter of the law" knowing their RMP process is so skewed currently. RS and more specifically Constrictor get even a bit grayer when you consider the fact much of the trails land on private property, i.e. the BLM doesn't have any jurisdiction over the trail however we should be even more respectful to retain access no?

However in an area like American Fork Canyon. Trails are 100% represented by current MVUM (Motor Vehicle Use Map, the USFS legal process for opening and/or closing trails) and any off-trail use is just that, off trail. But gray area still exists. Primitive camping is allowed per the MVUM and thus access to and from camp is legit so long as it's done in an environmentally sensitive way.

Clear as mud?

 

[RogueJeepr]

Good to see something like this come up. It needs to be read by every form of off-roader .

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Good to see something like this come up. It needs to be read by every form of off-roader .

Sadly it often seems that the ones that need it the most are the hardest to reach with the message.

I've done Tread Lightly classes (TL Master Trainer fwiw) for a variety of groups, most recently the Utah ATV Association and I think it's always a good discussion, I know I learn something new every time.

 

[DAA]

I get into a lot of grey area. Way out in the nothing. Not any kind of destination, no attractions, no named trails, no real reason for anyone to be there except for the fact that there is nothing there and that has it's own appeal.

A not infrequent scenario, is I'm on a historic road, that is nothing but two track with hood high sage brush growing between the tracks. And after maybe half a day on it, it just peters out. On the map, I can see that it is "supposed" to keep going, and connect with another - where I was wanting to go. Turning around means I ain't gonna get there, not that day.

It turns into a situational judgement call. I try and be conscientious about it. Try to use common sense. Try not to be "that guy". Typically, I get out and scout ahead on foot, sometimes for more than a mile. If I come back upon the track, I'll usually keep going and get back on it. If I don't, I'll usually turn around.

But, there are lots of variables in play. How bad do I need to get to that connector? How likely do I think it is that anyone else is ever, or at least within the next year, going to come this way, see my tracks and use them. How much do I think that matters (occasionally, depending on the situation, I see it as good - like when I KNOW the route is open according to the MVUM). Sometimes, as best I can tell, nobody else has used this road for years and I think maybe it's a good thing to lay some tracks on it. Other times, if I think the potential for traffic and impact is there, I think maybe it's best left undisturbed.

I'm sure I don't always make the right call. Heck, I know I don't - sometimes, I make the wrong call for what I think are good reasons.

But, it is something I have to think about and decide fairly often, some of the places far from any published attractions or known features that my wandering takes me.

High impact, busy places, you guys have already nailed it. I just stay on the known trail, period. Any new tire tracks are going to become new lines and new braiding. Pretty much every time. So I don't (knowingly!) do it. Having said that, I HAVE done it, unknowingly.

- DAA

 

[N-Smooth]

I'm fairly certain I know what you're talking about. I think sometimes people get spoiled by open areas like Sand Hollow and leave their common sense at home when they run other trails that aren't open travel. They'll say they see tire tracks on the bottom and so it's okay but all that means is someone else has tried it and it doesn't justify it.

 

[Jinx]

There has been some good education points explained here which is what I was hoping for.

I am pretty thick skinned and generally do better when someone helps me understand "why" I am wrong versus just tells me I am wrong.

 

[RogueJeepr]

I think the challenge is how to go about telling people on the trail without getting into some sort of fight.
Also if rangers handed out heavy tickets OR a choice to do a tread lightly-trail etiquette class I think there would be some big improvements. I know when I had to do a defensive driving class it helped alot.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I think the challenge is how to go about telling people on the trail without getting into some sort of fight.
Also if rangers handed out heavy tickets OR a choice to do a tread lightly-trail etiquette class I think there would be some big improvements. I know when I had to do a defensive driving class it helped alot.

Tread Lightly training is very heavy on discussing and learning new ways to interact with rogue users, conflict resolution, etc. While much of it is common sense, it's helpful. I'd like to think I'm much less of a hothead when discussing roque behavior with user groups. Frankly I'm embarrassed thinking about some of the discussions I've had before.

 

[Kevin B.]

FWIW, treading lightly isn't just about where it's appropriate to drive. I put out three smoldering campfires on my way out of Murdoch Basin this morning, and filled my trash bag with beer cans and water bottles from the same sites.

 

[Jinx]

Great Point Kevin! I agree responsible land use goes beyond just staying on the trail.

Doing what you can to better the situation for everyone makes a big difference! I am personally a big fan of keeping construction garbage bags in the jeep to clean up where we can...

I think at this point, I find comfort in knowing I am not some random trail Nazi, out to kill everyone else's good time.

As I understand things from back channels, the folks who needed a little education on responsible land use are being brought up to speed and hopefully better understand what we are all facing trying to keep the trails/land accessible.

Thanks for everyone's input.