tube bending with harbor freight!?!

[N-Smooth]

Originally posted by Jeremy
Use DOM or HREW, do NOT use a muffler pipe bender, they put a large indent on the inside of the bend, which will be weak, not to mention people will make fun of you. Do an extensive search on Pirate, it will be long, but this is an important topic to learn.

haha people will make fun of me that was great...
i think there is an article in one of the mags this month about what to use. i know it is a topic that has been talked about forever and ever.
i know that most people use DOM 2" 1/8" wall. that is probably what i will use but i don't think that wasatch carries it.
nate

 

[Hickey]

Originally posted by spencurai
there is a lot of good stuff in this thread on POR. The overall tensil strength of the steel is better. The finish and consisntency is better. It is easier to work with.

if you design it right your pipe will hold up just fine.

If you are starting with a cheap mentality, you probably don't have the technical know-how to make a well designed cage out of cheap material...



I agree with this.

 

[spencurai]

Originally posted by Jeremy
Tell me why it's stronger Spence. And as far as nascar is concerned, the high speeds they operate at require a material that will ABSORB energy on impact IE,crush/bend/stretch. That is why ythey do not use pipe. When you hit a wall at 200 MPH, you don't want to stop, you want to slow down and absorb energy.

looks like you answered your own question there...

absorbing impact is the key. I have seen some rollovers that would make a nascar driver cringe....

 

[Hickey]

You have to buy DOM or HREW from Marmon Keystone, or local shops like Rocklogic, Factory Tubular or MCneese Racing, and of course, Anarchy offroad has what you need too. Wasatch does not carry it, they usually don't even know what it is.

 

[N-Smooth]

is it expensive$$$$$$$... of course it has to be, it is for my jeep...everything is expensive...anyone want to rob a bank with me? we can drive my sami...it is fast....yeah right

 

[xjc]

Ok, the reason DOM is more esxpensive is because it starts its life as sewer pipe as spence calls it but then it's DOM'ed or in other works it is drawn over a mandrel. The DOM'ing takes a small thick walled pipe at room temperature or so and mashes it through a mandrel that makes it thiner and possibly a greater diameter. The cold forming of the steel makes it more resistant to bending. Mild steel pipe has a tensile strength of around 30ksi or in other words, in tensile loading, a one inch crossection will support 30,000 lbs before giving. I have heard DOM having strengths of 80ksi. So the DOM steel is much harder and will support more load before bending, streaching, or otherwise permanently failing.

BTW, as soon as you weld the DOM, the heated area reverts back to 30ksi.

IMHO use regular pipe instead of DOM and you will be fine. DOM is the choise of high tech people but that aint me so I would never worry about it for anything I do. You would understand if you saw my work getto fab

 

[Hickey]

Originally posted by spencurai


looks like you answered your own question there...

absorbing impact is the key. I have seen some rollovers that would make a nascar driver cringe....

That does not make it stronger Spence, I'm trying to get you to quit passing on flawed info. Pipe is strong it WILL work, BUT, tube is better to work with, as the process in which it is manufactured yeilds a higher quality finish(smoother) and higher consistency in measurements. Pipe dies in a JD2 will tend to wear prematurely because of this.

 

[James K]

Originally posted by xj_punk
is it expensive$$$$$$$... of course it has to be, it is for my jeep...everything is expensive...anyone want to rob a bank with me? we can drive my sami...it is fast....yeah right

Where are you in t-ville. Your welcome to come by and see the jd2 I have and the work done with it.

 

[spencurai]

Originally posted by xjc

BTW, as soon as you weld the DOM, the heated area reverts back to 30ksi.

IMHO use regular pipe instead of DOM and you will be fine. DOM is the choise of high tech people but that aint me so I would never worry about it for anything I do. You would understand if you saw my work getto fab

it reverts back to 30ksi at the weld....not the ENTIRE length of the tube right?

BTW xjc is an engineer fresh out of college so he knows his numbers.

 

[spencurai]

Originally posted by Jeremy
, I'm trying to get you to quit passing on flawed info.

sorry but XJC explained it from an engineer's POV and I think I am gonna have to go with him on this one...it is stronger overall....but the same strength at the welds. all thicknesses and diameters being equal.

 

[Greg]

Flawed info or not...... I would rather have DOM or HREW proctecting myself, my Family and my Friends any day, rather than Pipe.

Sure, NASCAR runs into walls @ 180 MPH and drivers walk away. And, yeah, usually Rockcrawlin' rolls are just slow Flops or gentle, full rolls. But, it's not the case 100% of the time.

Highspeed roll-overs are possible in a 4x4, too......
A friend of mine had a Van pullout in front of him as he was crusing down State Street. He was going about 50 MPH, swerved to miss the Van and the fully-caged Cruiser barrel rolled 3 times.

I don't know if Pipe would have held up or not, but I wouldn't want to find out while being tossed around on the pavement.



If I am going to go thru the effort of building a Cage, I will spend the extra $$ on the right material and equipment to ensure that it's going to hold up, whatever the situation.

Just my humble opinion......

 

[James K]

Originally posted by Greg
.



If I am going to go thru the effort of building a Cage, I will spend the extra $$ on the right material and equipment to ensure that it's going to hold up, whatever the situation.

I agree with this completely, and that is what I did.

 

[Hickey]

I'm not trying to say everyone should use pipe, I'm trying to show what the difference is. Just saying "Pipe is weak" isn't good enough, because alot of people out there will say and think,"well, tube is so expensive, and pipe seems tough to me. My uncle built this swing set we used to have outta pipe and it sure was tough...." I think the best advice is, if you want to start building things, start small with bumpers and sliders and other things that aren't so critical in a rollover. You will develope a feel for different materials to use for which applications. When you get good enough that you think you want to build a cage, my guess is you will use tube, it may be more money, but the overall benefits will outway tube in a cage application.

 

[Hickey]

Originally posted by spencurai


sorry but XJC explained it from an engineer's POV and I think I am gonna have to go with him on this one...it is stronger overall....but the same strength at the welds. all thicknesses and diameters being equal.

I'm glad you have someone who can think for you, spence. Does this mean you would use pipe too?

 

[Greg]

Originally posted by Jeremy
I'm not trying to say everyone should use pipe, I'm trying to show what the difference is......

I know Jeremy, I just felt that I should state my personal opinion. Pipe has it's place.... Personally, not over my head.


From what I understand, Pipe is much more brittle. A high-speed roll w/ a Pipe cage would scare the hell outta me. Pipe doesn't get beat up in Rocker Protection applications for this fact, but it's the same fact that makes me afraid to use Pipe as Cage material.

 

[Hickey]

Originally posted by Greg




I know Jeremy, I just felt that I should state my personal opinion. Pipe has it's place.... Personally, not over my head.


From what I understand, Pipe is much more brittle. A high-speed roll w/ a Pipe cage would scare the hell outta me. Pipe doesn't get beat up in Rocker Protection applications for this fact, but it's the same fact that makes me afraid to use Pipe as Cage material.

RIght on and BINGO!! I echo every word in this post.
I get tired of people flaming others for using pipe, even if it's for their sliders and the rest of the rig is pure DOM Chromoly TIG welded. "AH, you must be a plumber, I can see you are using pipe!!" Nascar doesn't regularly and repeatedly bounce their sliders off of boulders, do they? No, so jsut because Nascar does something, doesn't mean it's the same in rock crawling, they are different applications, but the same too.

 

[WJL]

Tubing is the best to use either type. (your life is worth it)

Another subject is design and welding. You may think your design is "Cool" but is it strong? Many factors involved.
Welding do you trust your welding for yourself and loved ones and others that could be involved in an accedent? Are you certified are you going to TIG MIG or Stick, Hows your copping of tubing.

There is alot more to building a cage or any other part you can think of.
Ie that bumper you make could be tougging on a 30' strap, is it going to hold?

Just throwing a little more into this dicussion


orginal question HF Junk save for a good bender.
I would like to get the tube shark. saving now

 

[Hickey]

Also, pipe is measured by Inside Diameter(ID)
Tube is mesured by Outside Daimeter(OD)

Just thought I would add that for anyone doing a search in the future.

 

[spencurai]

Originally posted by Jeremy
I'm glad you have someone who can think for you, spence. Does this mean you would use pipe too?

so what you are saying is the you have personally done your own metalurgical analysis and have come to a conclusion completely independent of other men and their "thinking"....hello that is what engineers are for.....we pay them to think for us.....where my point of view differed from his is when he strayed from clear fact of metals into personal opinion....

the whole point of this thread is that pipe has never been certified as safe for "safety cages" so why take the risk. The reason it is not used is because it is best suited for routing water, natural gas, and human waste products.

I like my pipe that I have used in my bumper applications. I think it would be great for sliders but I feel it is innapropriate for cages.

 

[spencurai]

Originally posted by WJL
Tubing is the best to use either type. (your life is worth it)

Another subject is design and welding. You may think your design is "Cool" but is it strong? Many factors involved.
Welding do you trust your welding for yourself and loved ones and others that could be involved in an accedent? Are you certified are you going to TIG MIG or Stick, Hows your copping of tubing.

There is alot more to building a cage or any other part you can think of.
Ie that bumper you make could be tougging on a 30' strap, is it going to hold?

Just throwing a little more into this dicussion


orginal question HF Junk save for a good bender.
I would like to get the tube shark. saving now

ahh the advice of YET another mechanical engineer with years of experience under his belt......by all means listen to the engineers....I don't give a rats crack if anyone listens to me just listen to the people whose job it is to know these things without a doubt!!

now if you need me to design lights, sound and stage for your next business meeting or concert...I am the man you are looking for....