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Vegas massacre

Cody

Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
Gastown
Despite my past, I actually do a pretty good job ignoring the buffoonery that is rampant on social media. That being said, I let myself get sucked into a pointless argument with someone on FB this week that was a result of this event and I feel bad that I let myself go to that level, and even more so that the type of person I was arguing with would never even care enough to try to understand what he was really saying. It was the generally soul-bristleing sentiment that if you don't support guns or God that you should leave this country, and obviously the entire concept of that sentiment is a direct contradiction to the principles that this country was founded on. But, because I defend the ideals of this country, I'm not as good of an "American" and should go to Canada.

I'm a gun owner, and I don't believe we should take guns away nor do I think any additional measures of gun control that might have been in place would or could have prevented this tragedy. Do I think people need to own automatic weapons? No, at least not any more than George Washington probably thought the farmer down the street needed to own a cannon. I also don't think the 2nd Amendment should be looked as gun legislation. The "right to bear arms" was meant as much to protect us from foreign invasion as it was to protect us from the potential of our own government taking away our rights. Obviously they couldn't have predicted the types of arms modern technology would make accessible to people so interpreting it as gun legislation isn't any more reasonable than trying to pass gun legislation that would remain relevant in the year 2243. That's silly. It's not revisionist for people to at least look at the current state of affairs and consider that there might be better ways to regulate modern weapons that could save lives.

All that being said, laws are only in place to keep the honest people honest. Killing is illegal, and yet people still kill. Drugs are illegal yet people still deal and use drugs. If automatic weapons were illegal, people would still get them and it would probably just create that much more money for traffickers into America.
 
Hickey

Hickey

Burn-barrel enthusiast
Supporting Member
Location
Grantsville, Utah
It's difficult to have a reasonable, and honest discussion about this with anyone right now. Emotions are just too high.

The article I shared hits aweful close to home for me. I'm alone far the vast majority of every week, and I cannot bond or reveal my true feelings to anyone I work with. It definitely leads to depression, I know this from experience. Spending time with friends offroading and camping is pretty damn important to me right now.
 
RogueJeepr

RogueJeepr

Here!
Location
Utah
Maybe a talk about where concerts are put on OR security at hotels.

You can control security going into concert but surrounding (overlooking) buildings no.
Went to a concert recently and was thinking of "what if" happened while on the grass section.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk
 
moab_cj5

moab_cj5

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
The Village of Kay
Hickey said:
It's difficult to have a reasonable, and honest discussion about this with anyone right now. Emotions are just too high.

The article I shared hits aweful close to home for me. I'm alone far the vast majority of every week, and I cannot bond or reveal my true feelings to anyone I work with. It definitely leads to depression, I know this from experience. Spending time with friends offroading and camping is pretty damn important to me right now.
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Let's go!
 
Houndoc

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
smartass_kid said:
Great article and full of fact.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics...made-americans-fear-their-own-government.html
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Not sure I really see the point of his article.

Yes there are "enthusiasts" who own lots of guns. So what? Just like a small percent of the population owns most the collectable baseball cards, individuals have the hobbies and interests. that doesn't make them dangerous and he has no basis, other than his own mind, to say that all those with large gun collections are wanna be militants or anti-government extremists. I would suspect, based on people I know, they are the minority.

The one point he hints at that I may see some truth to is the relation to entertainment. Should we be surprised that ultra-violent movies and video games are the norm and now we have an increase in mass shootings, despite an overall decrease in violent crime? I don't think so.
 
Houndoc

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
Cody said:
I'm a gun owner, and I don't believe we should take guns away nor do I think any additional measures of gun control that might have been in place would or could have prevented this tragedy. Do I think people need to own automatic weapons? No, at least not any more than George Washington probably thought the farmer down the street needed to own a cannon. I also don't think the 2nd Amendment should be looked as gun legislation. The "right to bear arms" was meant as much to protect us from foreign invasion as it was to protect us from the potential of our own government taking away our rights. Obviously they couldn't have predicted the types of arms modern technology would make accessible to people so interpreting it as gun legislation isn't any more reasonable than trying to pass gun legislation that would remain relevant in the year 2243. That's silly. It's not revisionist for people to at least look at the current state of affairs and consider that there might be better ways to regulate modern weapons that could save lives.
Click to expand...

And that is the real question, what if any, regulations would save lives? Most of us agree that the majority of proposals would not.

I can see the point of potential restrictions on bump fire stocks or other mechanisms that is a practical way make a legal, semi-auto function like what would be an illegal fully automatic.

How many lives, if any, would it have saved? We will never know but it is an area well worth an open discussion without us gun owners crying wolf about mass gun confiscations.
 
anderson750

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
Houndoc said:
The one point he hints at that I may see some truth to is the relation to entertainment. Should we be surprised that ultra-violent movies and video games are the norm and now we have an increase in mass shootings, despite an overall decrease in violent crime? I don't think so.
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I have been saying for a long time that this is an issue of humanity. The new norm is movies and games that glorify violence, killing the bad guy and murder. Killing is now an acceptable solution when people become desensitized. Even for normal people how many times do you hear people say for whatever reason somebody has done something very bad that they hope they die. I am in now way an overly religious person but I believe that since God and pride in our country has been removed from our schools, value of human life has been lost. It does not matter if guns were outlawed, somebody like this who wants to cause a mass casualty event like this will find a way to accomplish it.
 
ID Bronco

ID Bronco

Registered User
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
Cody said:
All that being said, laws are only in place to keep the honest people honest. Killing is illegal, and yet people still kill. Drugs are illegal yet people still deal and use drugs. If automatic weapons were illegal, people would still get them and it would probably just create that much more money for traffickers into America.
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I agree with this, but for the record Automatic weapons have been illegal since the 80's, and yes bad guys still have them. good point.
 
Houndoc

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
ID Bronco said:
I agree with this, but for the record Automatic weapons have been illegal since the 80's, and yes bad guys still have them. good point.
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I don't think fully automatics are a common crime weapon. Would be interested if anyone could actually show when the last one was used.
 
ID Bronco

ID Bronco

Registered User
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
Unimog said:
Maybe it's just semantics, but automatic weapons are not illegal. It is just illegal to sell new ones or sell any without proper registration.
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I totally understand this and agree, I was just using the easy way out rather than explaining the process. To most gun owners who wouldn't pay what it costs and wade through the B.S. to have one. I should have said largely banned.
 
Noahfecks

Noahfecks

El Destructo!
Location
Glenwoody Springs, CO
I would point out that a moderate shot with a standard bolt action hunting rifle and a 5 round magazine could have gotten off at least two accurate shots per minute. 75 minutes it took for Swat to breach the room door x2 rounds/min = lots more dead people

It wasnt the rifle, it was the broken individual holding it

We dont blame the spoon for making people fat

He who sacrifices liberty for security deserves neither
 
muleskinner

muleskinner

Well-Known Member
Location
Enoch, UT
It's beyond retarded to even consider banning these stocks. I've had several over the last few years, they will put a smile on your face but other than that they are pretty useless. That lunatic could have killed way more people had he learned how to shoot and just aimed at people with his semi auto, drove a truck into the crowd or... With a little practice you can shoot nearly as fast anyway. Jerry has more than a little practice, but you get the idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qGUTVxZu4c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FbUMqoyjDw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuKz8brpH0I
 
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