Well what do you know?

[RockMonkey]

HIDING!! you bastard!! i'm telling!!

Am I? Or am I really offline? You don't know...

 

[tweakeyjeep]

I think what MBryson was trying to say is that a Van isn't really set up for these kind of trails. It wasn't designed for it. Ya it may have 4wd, but does it have a roll cage? Is it lifted, if it is, how much more top heavy is it? that thing looks way top heavy.

You're probably saying, ya well my rig (or yours) wasn't set up for this type of four-wheeling either, but... It sure was a helluva lot easier to setup thatn a van would be!

I think what he meant was that even though hell's Revenge isn't that tough something very seriously wrong can happen to people. You know all the things that have happend on Lion's Back... How hard is that?

Just my $0.02!

 

[bryson]

I say that as long as people do not mess up the trail, and can handle themselves in common off-road situations, let the soap-dodging hippies do as they please.

But you better believe there will be some mad sh!t-talking from me!

 

[James K]

Ya it may have 4wd, but does it have a roll cage? Is it lifted, if it is, how much more top heavy is it? that thing looks way top heavy.

do pick ups have cages...........................not all of them


COG is a reletive.............what if it had wider axles?

 

[Cruiser]

I think what MBryson was trying to say is that a Van isn't really set up for these kind of trails. It wasn't designed for it. Ya it may have 4wd, but does it have a roll cage? Is it lifted, if it is, how much more top heavy is it? that thing looks way top heavy.

You're probably saying, ya well my rig (or yours) wasn't set up for this type of four-wheeling either, but... It sure was a helluva lot easier to setup thatn a van would be!

I think what he meant was that even though hell's Revenge isn't that tough something very seriously wrong can happen to people. You know all the things that have happend on Lion's Back... How hard is that?

Just my $0.02!

based on what you just said i can safely say your jeep want designed for hupper hell and you shouldnt run it!

that van has dawm near the same running gear as a toy pu, i guess they shouldnt be used either, if you can solid axel swap a 4runner, why not a van, come to think of it there are still a bunch of ifs rigs on trails so why even do sas..
and actually the van is as or more stable than a truck due to how low the running gear is mounted!!..it can do angles my cruiser ROLLED ON

i guess what i'm saying is dont knock what you dont know!!
scott jackson had a 89 runner(locked,35's) well he sold it and is building a VAN!! so collon/flipoff/colon!!

and as far as things happening on a trail, i could just as easy have a belt brake and my bad ass crawler is useless!!!
or in the jeep sence, blow your motor!!!
bad things happen to everyone..

i more think that people with lack of commom sence and driving skills are more a problem then vans...



my 0.2....

 

[mbryson]

.................that van has dawm near the same running gear as a toy pu, ................

Interesting.....I thought they were Camry (basicly a Camry 'All-Trac') based rigs with a single speed transfer case (that alone scared me for the steep domes on that trail). Please forgive my Toyota ignorance. If someone wants to build a van, go for it, I guess............<foot in mouth>..............can't wait to see the waterbed & curtian mod

 

[Herzog]

can't wait to see the waterbed & curtian mod

I was thinking that would be a cool mod for my cherokee.

 

[mbryson]

I was thinking that would be a cool mod for my cherokee.

Hmmmmm.........that would be cool. I'd have to change the name of the XJ from 'Tool Shed' {or maybe not }

 

[Cruiser]

Interesting.....I thought they were Camry (basicly a Camry 'All-Trac') based rigs with a single speed transfer case (that alone scared me for the steep domes on that trail). Please forgive my Toyota ignorance. If someone wants to build a van, go for it, I guess............<foot in mouth>..............can't wait to see the waterbed & curtian mod

the vans have a different motor but they have a 5 speed with two speed tcase...
hey came with auto and single speed tcase too, but the tcases are interchangable!
no waterbed but it does have a 12 volt fridge, and rear A/C!!

 

[Medsker]

I still remember my first time to Moab, it was about 20 years ago. I'm sure I was probably laughed at in my Subaru at the time. But I remember I wheeled all over that place, I didn't know the trails so I don't know where I went but I sure had fun!!!

 

[Cruiser]

I still remember my first time to Moab, it was about 20 years ago. I'm sure I was probably laughed at in my Subaru at the time. But I remember I wheeled all over that place, I didn't know the trails so I don't know where I went but I sure had fun!!!

Brats kick ass

some FRIENDS drove a subaru brat up the steps of the capital...they wheeled that little thing everywhere!!

 

[EZRhino]

Brats kick ass

some FRIENDS drove a subaru brat up the steps of the capital...they wheeled that little thing everywhere!!

That's been done before.......

I agree with Marc. If you take all the bypasses then you're really not doing the trail. Generally speaking, bypasses were created by people who have no business being on the trail. If you can't do it the way it's designed then maybe you shouldn't be there. Another thing to consider, creating bypasses and multiple routes is (generally speaking) illegal/bad trail ethics.

EZ

 

[Cruiser]

That's been done before.......

I agree with Marc. If you take all the bypasses then you're really not doing the trail. Generally speaking, bypasses were created by people who have no business being on the trail. If you can't do it the way it's designed then maybe you shouldn't be there. Another thing to consider, creating bypasses and multiple routes is (generally speaking) illegal/bad trail ethics.

EZ

like i said...i'm sure that tipover and esc, were not the original trail, so who is to say that guys with built rigs arent the ones that are off the original trail, building extra obsticles......when those trails were built i'm sure it was STOCK jeeps, or mining trucks that first explored them....

and in a way your saying everyone who doesnt do the tubs didnt really DO the trail!!

FWIW.... the van didnt go off trail once...it avoided the obsticles that were too much for it to handle, taking the most traveled path, that i would think to mostlikely be the where the origial vehicles traveled....

from what i understand, for the most part the first ppl on most of the older trails were not there to wheel...they were testing for mining...right?


for the record i'm not trying to start a fight here... just trying to get my point across...

i'm against expanding of the trails completely, but if i can take my gremlen through a trail without stacking rocks or going off existing trail,WHY NOT?

 

[iceaxe]

I'm not a big fan of the bypasses anyway {you're kind of dumbing down a pretty cool trail if you take all the obstacles--BYPASSES SUCK...if you MUST take them, find a different trail}, and if you let vans in, you might as well let the Mustang club run the trail too......stack a few rocks, maybe cut the sandstone out so they can make it up and down the hills................maybe just pave it. That'd be cool.........

really? first a little history so you know why I'm posting, I went down to Moab in 2002 for my first ever organized trail run after several years of XJ ownership and exploring Utahs backcountry roads alone in my bone stock vehicle. I took that stock XJ with bald tires and ran Hells Revenge with NAXJA that year and had the absolute best time I ever had driving that jeep offroad up to that point and possibly even since. I also have owned a 1966 Mustang since 1992.
hummm lets think for a moment - how do you think that your statements make me feel? Should I have found a different trail when all the other XJ's were playing on hells revenge? Should I have missed out on the time of my life and run out to Gemini Bridges alone again? Mebe I should have taken the Mustang instead!!

I think we all find challenges on the trails we run. I'd have to agree that you should push the envelope a little.....(I drive an XJ....and it's done some things that are kind of unusual to that vehicle).........When are the Outbacks going to conquer Hells Revenge????..........Did the van's 'conquer' Hell's Revenge? I'd say NO. They took the bypasses.

Is it not pushing the envelope a little to drive stock vehicles on Hells Revenge even on the bypasses? do they not find enjoyment and challenge? I felt like I had "Conqured" Hells Revenge after, why? I made it through and had the time of my life doing it, I didn't feel bad about taking the bypasses, didn't feel like I was on some illegal or wussy short cut!

All I'm asking is that people are responsible and prepared on a trail. Having someone bail you out if you get in a jam and are unprepared should be embarrassing, not a moment of pride. If you haven't broke, you will. Be prepared. If you're prepared, you're more able to help someone else that may not be as prepared as you. That's the fun on the tougher trails, IMHO. Getting into a 'pickle' and getting your rig back with the help of your friends, your wits, and whatever tools and 'stuff' is in a vehicle.

let me get this straight, people in vans, stock rigs, whatever, should not run Hells Revenge with thier buddies because they might get in a 'pickle', but then you say it's fun to run a tougher trail with your buddies and get in a 'pickle'??? Your asking more than for people to just be prepared. I was prepared by following the NAXJA guidlines for safety equipment. All you should really be asking is that people prepare with basic safety and recovery equipment, and good frinds along.

My point: If you're driving a basicly stock van, stay to a 3 or lower trail......take the obstacles and enjoy what that trail has to offer. If you've got a Matador, maybe stick to the fire roads. Hell's Revenge isn't my favorite trail, and it seriously drives me nuts to have someone say they've run that trail and haven't driven the major obstacles. To me, bypasses are for crippled rigs and shouldn't be part of the trail. I've not enjoyed seeing Hells Revenge and other trails go from what they were, to what they are. I guess that's the price we pay for the popularity of our sport. I don't have to like it.

Your right, you don't have to like it. Guess what though, I've Conqured Hells revenge in my stock XJ, yeah you heard me! I drove it and took the bypasses, I spectated at Hells Gate, I drove around to the side of Tip over! And I hope I'm driving you Nuts. Just curious, did you ever have a stock vehicle? If so has all that lift and rubber gone to your head? I'm not going to stop having fun just because my XJ isn't as big as yours!! I'm done venting now, Thank you.

PS - I met you last year on a couple runs with local XJers and thought you were pretty cool!

 

[richpblaze]

Who cares ?????????

Who cares, I don't care If you drive a VW Bug as long as you have a good time and have friends that will pull you though the trail. That is what this is all about. And as far as Vehicles being built for what we do, there is only one. TUBE BUGGIES. Blaze

 

[mbryson]

really? first a little history so you know why I'm posting, I went down to Moab in 2002 for my first ever organized trail run after several years of XJ ownership and exploring Utahs backcountry roads alone in my bone stock vehicle. I took that stock XJ with bald tires and ran Hells Revenge with NAXJA that year and had the absolute best time I ever had driving that jeep offroad up to that point and possibly even since. I also have owned a 1966 Mustang since 1992.
hummm lets think for a moment - how do you think that your statements make me feel? Should I have found a different trail when all the other XJ's were playing on hells revenge? Should I have missed out on the time of my life and run out to Gemini Bridges alone again? Mebe I should have taken the Mustang instead!!



Is it not pushing the envelope a little to drive stock vehicles on Hells Revenge even on the bypasses? do they not find enjoyment and challenge? I felt like I had "Conqured" Hells Revenge after, why? I made it through and had the time of my life doing it, I didn't feel bad about taking the bypasses, didn't feel like I was on some illegal or wussy short cut!



let me get this straight, people in vans, stock rigs, whatever, should not run Hells Revenge with thier buddies because they might get in a 'pickle', but then you say it's fun to run a tougher trail with your buddies and get in a 'pickle'??? Your asking more than for people to just be prepared. I was prepared by following the NAXJA guidlines for safety equipment. All you should really be asking is that people prepare with basic safety and recovery equipment, and good frinds along.



Your right, you don't have to like it. Guess what though, I've Conqured Hells revenge in my stock XJ, yeah you heard me! I drove it and took the bypasses, I spectated at Hells Gate, I drove around to the side of Tip over! And I hope I'm driving you Nuts. Just curious, did you ever have a stock vehicle? If so has all that lift and rubber gone to your head? I'm not going to stop having fun just because my XJ isn't as big as yours!! I'm done venting now, Thank you.

PS - I met you last year on a couple runs with local XJers and thought you were pretty cool!

You're right.........to a certain degree. Let's discuss this offline and let this thread go on......You've got PM

 

[Herzog]

Marc, you jerk.

I mostly agree though... if a rig can't make the obsticals and are widening the bypasses (which occurs everytime a bypass is taken) then they shouldn't be there. Quit fubar-ing the trails.

Have you guys seen the bypass on rockpile lately? That thing never used to be there! What a discrace.

 

[mbryson]

..............Have you guys seen the bypass on rockpile lately? That thing never used to be there! What a discrace.

That scares me. Use a winch or a strap and go up the trail...................

 

[WildYoats]

OH NO!!!! ANOTHER TOYOTA 4X4 VAN THREAD!!!!!!! RUN!!!!!!!

 

[tweakeyjeep]

based on what you just said i can safely say your jeep want designed for hupper hell and you shouldnt run it!

that van has dawm near the same running gear as a toy pu, i guess they shouldnt be used either, if you can solid axel swap a 4runner, why not a van, come to think of it there are still a bunch of ifs rigs on trails so why even do sas..
and actually the van is as or more stable than a truck due to how low the running gear is mounted!!..it can do angles my cruiser ROLLED ON

i guess what i'm saying is dont knock what you dont know!!
scott jackson had a 89 runner(locked,35's) well he sold it and is building a VAN!! so collon/flipoff/colon!!

and as far as things happening on a trail, i could just as easy have a belt brake and my bad ass crawler is useless!!!
or in the jeep sence, blow your motor!!!
bad things happen to everyone..

i more think that people with lack of commom sence and driving skills are more a problem then vans...



my 0.2....

You're right, my jeep isn't set up for upper helldorado, So I haven't run it!

All I was trying to point out is, is the van safe enough to take on a trail with the risk of rollover (I don't care how good your driving skills are... I don't care if you're walker evans, there is always the risk of rolling) Are you going to be injured or not? Is it worth it?

I know that if I roll in my Jeep (ya I don't have a full custom cage... Yet ) But I will be protected enough with the stock cage (depending on the rollover of course).

I'm not saying you can't take your van off road, I'm just saying have you set it up so that it's safe enough? I think it's cool that it can go where your cruiser can't, sweet!

do pick ups have cages...........................not all of them

Well no duh!

Read above and put it into context!