Why does my steering suck?

[Meat_]

They're Autozone remanufactured pumps. With three different pumps and no change in the symptom I really can't imagine the problem lies with the pump. It has to be in the box or the ram.

I've never replaced a pump from them, but I think my record on alternators was 5 bad ones in a row.....

I got an AC Delco (granted it's still a rebuild for my year) for $39 without the resivour

 

[I Lean]

If the ram's seals (at the piston) are bad, then it will bleed pressure from one side to the other, and reduce the power assist that would normally be applied to the PS box piston. So, if the ram is all scarred up inside, it could actually make the steering harder than without it in the system.

If you had a pump self-destruct, it could have sent metal particles through EVERYTHING.

Check the ram. It's one snap ring to get it apart, then look at the piston and it's O-ring and wear band, shine a flashlight down the bore of the cylinder to check that.....

 

[RockMonkey]

If the ram's seals (at the piston) are bad, then it will bleed pressure from one side to the other, and reduce the power assist that would normally be applied to the PS box piston. So, if the ram is all scarred up inside, it could actually make the steering harder than without it in the system.

If you had a pump self-destruct, it could have sent metal particles through EVERYTHING.

Check the ram. It's one snap ring to get it apart, then look at the piston and it's O-ring and wear band, shine a flashlight down the bore of the cylinder to check that.....

Yup, I think checking the ram is prolly the easiest first step. Maybe I'll dig into it tomorrow and see what I can see inside.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Are ram parts available (the rams that RL sells)? Worth carrying a spare set of o-rings? Or just my plugs?

 

[I Lean]

Are ram parts available (the rams that RL sells)? Worth carrying a spare set of o-rings? Or just my plugs?

Parts and rebuild kits are available, but I don't think I'd worry about carrying one on-board. Typically it's a gradual reduction in assist force, as the O-ring on the piston wears. It only happens quickly if there is metal chunks scarring stuff up, and that probably means your pump just took a dump--so you're about to be without any power steering anyway.

 

[way2nosty]

Yes, I've drilled out the pump. Just like I drilled it out before, and it worked great. Ick, I really don't want to rebuild the box. Where's the best place to get a rebuild kit? Do you have the diagram for the box? I think I'm gonna start by ripping apart the ram, cuz it's waaaaay easier to do, then move on to the box. Is everyone running Dexron ATF in their steering system successfully?

You'de be better off to run a synthetic Power steering fluid rather then ATF, Modern power steering fluid has a Viscosity index improver, like oil that makes it more dense and less affected by temperature, ATF tends to swell seals etc, I have never liked ATF in a PS system, I'll use it in a pinch, or in a derby car, but that's about it, but I don't think that that is you're problem,

I would start at the pump, since that is the heart of the system, first test the pressure, a simple test is put you're thumb over it, if you can hold the pressure, it's not right, you may want to check to see if you have enough fluid in the reservior during cycleing if the level drops too low the pump will cavitate and push air into the box and cylendar, and that the box and the ram are presure bled, My assumption is that you have a pocket of air either in the cylender or in the box that is compressing, because air compresses it acts like a brake line with an air bubble, It isn't hard to bleed them, it is a lot like bleeding brakes, What I do to bleed a cylender is fill up the cylender with fluid then put the hose on the cylender side, then POINT THE FITTING UP, and then slowly add fluid to the line while working that end of the cylender up and down, do the same with the other side. then attach both lines and cycle both directions. if it is you're box the best way to power bleed is to turn the steering to the lock while holding return side closed, be gentle, turn it slowly, then all at once release the return, the rapid release in pressure will let the air burp from the system, do it several times. if you don't have enough volume in the reservior, add an auxillary cooler, it will add about 1/2 pint of capacity to your system, also there is a trick with a piece of 2" pipe,

 

[fergusor]

You'de be better off to run a synthetic Power steering fluid rather then ATF, Modern power steering fluid has a Viscosity index improver, like oil that makes it more dense and less affected by temperature, ATF tends to swell seals etc, I have never liked ATF in a PS system, I'll use it in a pinch, or in a derby car, but that's about it, but I don't think that that is you're problem,

In my 2003 Dodge it calls for the atf 4 which I found that you can only get from dodge. I really dont want to find out that it if anything else works in fear of having to pay to replace it.

 

[way2nosty]

You'de be better off to run a synthetic Power steering fluid rather then ATF, Modern power steering fluid has a Viscosity index improver, like oil that makes it more dense and less affected by temperature, ATF tends to swell seals etc, I have never liked ATF in a PS system, I'll use it in a pinch, or in a derby car, but that's about it, but I don't think that that is you're problem,

In my 2003 Dodge it calls for the atf 4 which I found that you can only get from dodge. I really dont want to find out that it if anything else works in fear of having to pay to replace it.

Thats an OE spec, they'll use urethane bodied seals and set the pressure to run with a lighter less viscous oil. Do what the OE Spec says, but if it's a 20 piece of gear, do what works best.

 

[RockMonkey]

Thats an OE spec, they'll use urethane bodied seals and set the pressure to run with a lighter less viscous oil. Do what the OE Spec says, but if it's a 20 piece of gear, do what works best.

But, OEM specs are different for my pump than they are for my box.

 

[way2nosty]

I pulled a Toyo Fj60 manual, it recommends dextron II or dextron III, the saginaw box won't really care what kind of fluid is in it, you may need to change the seals occasionally, but that's not that hard, Maybe when you get your steering problems worked out switch to a redline or valvoline synthetic dextron, I would still check the pump, and make sure it isn't sucking air.

 

[RockMonkey]

I pulled a Toyo Fj60 manual, it recommends dextron II or dextron III, the saginaw box won't really care what kind of fluid is in it, you may need to change the seals occasionally, but that's not that hard, Maybe when you get your steering problems worked out switch to a redline or valvoline synthetic dextron, I would still check the pump, and make sure it isn't sucking air.

The pump is not sucking air. I have a very large resevoir, and and the outlet is in the bottom, and the fluid level never goes down nearly that low. I'm still looking at either the ram or the box. I think with 3 different pumps and the exact same result, that the pump is very unlikely the culprit. Maybe I'll go rip apart the ram and see how it looks inside.

 

[BCGPER]

You just need to hit the gym, stick boy!!

(are you the kettle or me?)

 

[RockMonkey]

You just need to hit the gym, stick boy!!

(are you the kettle or me?)

I think you're the pot.

 

[RockMonkey]

Okay, so I just ripped apart the ram. This is at least part of my problem. I could barely move the shaft in and out by hand. I had to bolt one end of the ram back onto the buggy so I could pull the shaft out. The seals look okay. There are a few small scratches in the wall of the cylinder, but I don't think it is nearly bad enough to case a problem. The shaft is slightly bent, and I think that is what is causing it to be so hard to move. I took some pictures that show it pretty well. Are the scratches enough to affect it at all? Is my whole problem a bent shaft (on the steering ram, BC )?

 

[BCGPER]

Oh, sucks to be you that ram is toast! I was just typing a serious reply to have you check for a bend or dent (I konw how you drive), but you've found the problem.

 

[RockMonkey]

Oh, sucks to be you that ram is toast! I was just typing a serious reply to have you check for a bend or dent (I konw how you drive), but you've found the problem.

You think I can just replace the shaft? Does the rest of the ram look okay to you?

 

[BCGPER]

Only way to tell for sure is run a bore guage down it to check for out of round..... I don't have one small enough to check it for ya. For what a machine shop is going to charge to check it, just head up to RL and start fresh. But save that housing as a comp spare. If you want to get the shaft to me, I could probably get it close enough so that you could have a usable spare assembly for competition, but I wouldn't recomend it as a repair.

 

[bobdog]

I would look for a larger ram with a bigger shaft diameter.

 

[I Lean]

I would look for a larger ram with a bigger shaft diameter.

A larger ram would most likely be too slow. (too much volume to fill....) A larger shaft will make the difference in power-assist right to left more noticeable. Besides, it's already a 3/4" shaft....

 

[BCGPER]

Oh, and you obviously dont know what a pot is comparred to a kettle....