"Wingin' it" 4x6-ish Trailer Thread

[BlueWolfFab]

For the lightweightness of this trailer, I would say you would be just fine welding the tongue to the bottom of the crossmembers and adding some gusseting. I'd go at least as far back as the axle. Notching into the crossmembers can be a little stronger if you're confident in being able to pull it off, but if not it's a big can of worms. I'll whip up a CAD pic of some gusseting that I would reccomend.

The tongue does not need to be insanely accurately square, if it's a little bit off (the different thicknesses of your welds really are close enough) it's not going to change anything. Only being a single axle trailer it won't cause any tire wear or weird handling.

I'd probably go SUA then if you're worried about it being too tall, especially if you stick the tongue to the bottom.

Tongue length can be whatever you want. If you want to jacknife the trailer to 90° in reverse, measure your vehicle from the hitch, sideways to the outside of your bumper, and make your tongue at least that long before you add anything that can hit the truck.

For axle placement, measure from the front of the box. 70/30 is on the higher end of tongue weight, 60/40 the lower. You are so lightweight anyways though that you can pretty much do either of these and then just place the items in your box to however you feel it rides the best.

 

[bryson]

Right now the plan is water and fuel storage and probably a little box for random stuff like straps and wheel chocks. Liquid storage is the priority though for the tongue deck.

Thanks for starting the conversation on axle placement Steve, I picked mine up on the way home from work and was happy to see there was plenty of info already here for that.

After clamping the receiver tube to the front I'm starting to worry that I've got too long of a trailer. With 3'7" of tube extending from the front of the tongue deck my overall length is just over 12'. (half the width of the JK is 3' then add the 7" wiggle room per Mikes recommendation.) I'm at 147" total length and for perspective Adventure Trailers make 124" and 141" trailers. I guess the longer you make it the more likely you are to jam the receiver into the dirt going down and up inclines. I really don't know how much that will affect my use of it but I'm concerned about it.

EDIT: There won't be room for a box on the tongue if I store my liquid the way I want. I can get 6 scepter cans on there though.

The length of the tongue has nothing to do with jamming the receiver into the dirt - the receiver is the same height no matter the tongue length, and it is always the same distance from the Jeep rear tires. You will have more breakover between the Jeep rear axle and the trailer axle, which means you may bump the tube on a tall speed-bump type obstacle, but the receiver itself will fare the same no matter what.

Just thinking out loud here, but the size of your trailer box is larger than some - do you not have room inside the box for the Scepters and additional gear? Your trailer could obviously be a bunch shorter without extras on the front. Will your Scepters fit on the side "wings"? You could possibly store 4 cans that way without sacrificing overall length.

 

[Box Rocket]

A couple thoughts. As you know a longer tongue will make it easier to back up the trailer. Shorter will make it more maneuverable. Personally, for an offroad trailer I do what I can to match the distance from the rear axle of the tow vehicle to the axle on the trailer and have that distance as close as possible to the wheelbase of the tow vehicle but that isn't the main priority for tongue length, at least for me. If that distance isn't exact, no biggie, IMO. I try to make the tongue as short as possible but long enough so that the front of the trailer (or whatever is carried on the tongue) won't contact the tow vehicle when you jackknife the trailer. Remember that the distance between the truck and trailer will change depending of if the trailer is pitched up or down.
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Carrying the fluids on the tongue may be a good thing to increase tongue weight if you need it.

 

[nnnnnate]

For axle placement, measure from the front of the box. 70/30 is on the higher end of tongue weight, 60/40 the lower. You are so lightweight anyways though that you can pretty much do either of these and then just place the items in your box to however you feel it rides the best.

Would anything change if I planned to run an RTT in the future? I don't have one now but I think they are neat and wouldn't mind trying one out. It would be a tough sell to the wife but if that would factor into axle placement I'd just assume take that into account at this stage.

Just thinking out loud here, but the size of your trailer box is larger than some - do you not have room inside the box for the Scepters and additional gear? Your trailer could obviously be a bunch shorter without extras on the front. Will your Scepters fit on the side "wings"? You could possibly store 4 cans that way without sacrificing overall length.

The actual box is only going to be 4x6 with about 24" tall sides. It ends at the last full width brace and everything in front of that is what I've been calling the "tongue deck" That said I certainly can put the fuel cans inside or on the sides of the box. I don't have a super elaborate plan on building out slides or other organized storage in the box, I'm just going to pile my stuff in there and fish for it when I need something. The smaller gear will go in plastic totes.

 

[bryson]

Yeah I had looked at these last year pretty early on in my trailer looking, these and the ruger trailers out of denver. I seems like the price has gone up a fair amount in the last year, when I first saw them they started at $3,500, the Rugers started at $3k.

After picking up my axle and receiver tube last night I went out in the garage and started to feel a bit overwhelmed. Its not so bad that I'm going to rage quit but I need to take some time to think about how to go from here. I really need to get these in the right places for the trailer to be decent but I need to figure out a bunch of stuff and make some decisions before I can do that. This is stuff that you guys have already given good feedback on, I just need to decide whats going to work out best for me and how I want it so I don't end up needed to re-do a bunch of stuff later on. I'll share it so guys that are going to jump into one of these builds can see what I'm stumbling around on.

Stuff I need to decide on in no particular order:

1- Receiver tube and frame tube are both 2.5" square. Do I notch out the frame rails to slide the receiver tube through them for mounting or do I just weld the receiver to the bottom and add some bracing. Either will be plenty strong. Do whichever is easier. You won't be using this anywhere near the load capacity of your design.

2- For the tongue length, where do I start the measurements to get the clearance I need. From the front of the box or the front of the tongue deck or from the front edge of where I plan to mount the liquid storage.Your measurement needs to start at whatever point will cause interference with the Jeep if you jack knife it. You have to decide what you are doing on the front of the trailer before you can nail this down.

3- What the best way to square up the tongue to the rest of the trailer is. On the front of the trailer I don't have really any where to measure from that is uniform. I don't feel like I can rely on the joints because the welds are different thicknesses and that would throw off the numbers. I measured to the halfway point on the farthest forward full cross member and go that dialed in but the issue is where to measure from for the tip of the tongue. I may need to just tack it and then measure after I get the spring perches set because those will be a hard and flat mounting point.Like Chance said, close is plenty good on a trailer. Take center measurements on the furthest forward x-member, and the furthest rearward. Pull a string between the two and extend it to the tongue - that will give you center of the trailer for as long as your string is.

4- Where do I mount the axle. 60/40, 70/30 ect... Do I start the measurements from the front of the box or from the front of the tongue deck.Load your trailer how it will be loaded when you are using it. Place the axle wherever it needs to be to achieve your desired tongue weight. If in doubt, further back is way better than too far forward.

5- SOA or SUA. I initially planned on SOA but after doing some crude measurements yesterday I think that it might be a fair bit taller than my JK. I've only got 2.5" lift on the Jeep so its not super tall and I'll be running the same wheels/tires so that shouldn't be a factor. How I mount the receiver tube will affect this though, whether I mount it under the frame vs in the frame rails.This is personal preference, and without seeing pics/measurements nobody can decide this one for you. I'd keep it as low as you can and still clear the tire size you're running.

6- I need to order spacers. Spidertrax show the 1.75" spacers are out of stock and backordered so I'll need to call around to see if any of the other places have them. The other option is to bore out the wheels to provide clearance for the hub but I when I ordered the axle I factored the spacers into the width that I ordered. I can't really mock anything up with the axle until I have these so I'm going to try and get this sorted out pronto.If you can make the width work, I'd bore the wheels.

After I had all this garbage flying around in my head last night and wanted to do something productive I decided to grind some welds. I'm happy enough with how they look but need a flat surface for the box to mount to. I'm going to leave the welds in place on the bottom of the trailer. Props to Josh (Unstuck) for his great recommendation on the flap disks. I ordered a box from his guy on ebay a few weeks ago and have been super happy with them. I was using a grinding wheel before and was making huge divots on everything trying to clean the metal up. Its all smooth and shiny now and was super quick for weld prep and cleanup.Flap discs and soft discs are so much better than hard discs. I can't even remember the last time I used a hard disc on anything.

No project will ever be perfectly square, and no design can fulfill all needs. You are doing a great job - stop over-thinking things and stop second guessing yourself - remember that you are building this for yourself and not the internet. It will make the job much more enjoyable, and the final product will be more "you".

 

[I Lean]

Just a couple pics to give you any size comparison, might help you decide on where you want to put stuff?

My trailer has a 42"x60" box, with 15" tall sides. 32" tires currently, and the tongue sits right around 23"-24" off the ground.

Compared to a TJ on 33's:



Compared to a 2nd generation 4runner on 31's:



By itself:



With a cooler up front:



Being a foot shorter and 6" narrower than yours, it does fill up quickly...but it still holds a surprising amount of crap. In the pic with the 4runner, I put a spare on the front since I didn't have a matching vehicle lug pattern. So that took up room...the cooler went inside, along with a way-too-large box for food, a couple Scepter cans, a 5 gallon orange Igloo water cooler, and a whole lot of firewood. We didn't try to pack it very well, either--nothing really stuck up above the side rails any more than the taller items.

I guess what I'm saying, is that a 4x6 trailer is pretty good size, and you can fit a lot in it. So don't worry so much...build it, use it, change it later as you learn what you want it to do.

 

[BlueWolfFab]

Here's what I'd do for a gusset if you put the tongue tube under the crossmembers

 

[skippy]

That gusset is completely uncalled for though just welding the tongue tube to the crosssupports front and back is more than strong enough for this build. The gussets just add weight and expense

 

[BlueWolfFab]

That gusset is completely uncalled for though just welding the tongue tube to the crosssupports front and back is more than strong enough for this build. The gussets just add weight and expense

Says the guy building a subframe and running unibody stiffeners (; I kid. I'm just a overkill is underrated guy.

 

[nnnnnate]

You guys are awesome. I really appreciate the help and encouragement. Being that I've never built anything before the little tips have been great, like using a string. Its so simple but I hadn't though about doing it. I didn't have a ton of time yesterday to work in the garage but grabbed some string and got a few things lined up. I was going to tack the receiver tube in place then realized I was working on the wrong side of the frame. I ground off the welds the other night on the top to have a flat working surface and wanted to leave them in place on the bottom. I'll need to flip the frame tonight and redo the measurements.

I did get a few things figured out though. I'm going to chop the tube off by a foot which will take the total length down to about 135". I got this by putting a fuel can on the front and measuring forward from there the jack-knife distance. By chopping the front tube off I'll be able to use that bit to add a rear hitch mount for light duty stuff like a bike rack. I've also decided to mount the front receiver on the bottom of the frame rather than inset. I like the idea of have it inside but where I'm using the same size tube I think it would be too much of a hassle to chop the frame.

I also ordered 1.75" spacers from Spidertrax. I hadn't looked the first time but they had some in the "scratch and dent" section for $20 less and free shipping. UPS says they'll be here by COB friday which I'm excited about. I'm heading to the dunes on Saturday with Wasatch Cruisers so I won't get much done over the weekend but it will be nice to get the axle mocked up with wheels and tires. I still need to mount the tires but I should be able to drop them somewhere before the weekend.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I always mark "up" and "front/back, driver/passenger" when building stuff, because I get turned around quickly.

 

[BlueWolfFab]

I always mark "up" and "front/back, driver/passenger" when building stuff, because I get turned around quickly.

X2. Trates roll cage had Driver and Passenger written all over it ha

 

[nnnnnate]

I just got lazy and didn't flip it back over after grinding the welds down. I was tired. Yesterday I wasn't out there enough to change into my grubbys and I know I would have gotten grease all over my "nice" clothes.

 

[nnnnnate]

I got a bit of work done this afternoon. I flipped the trailer over then chopped off a foot of the receiver tube before measuring and tacking it in place. Total length is 134" so just over 11'. After taking care of that I chopped down the front wings so they match the width on the back end. Then I started playing with the axle location.

I took the box and tongue deck length (103") and multiplied that by 65% to get 67". So to me that means from the front of the tongue deck measure back 67" and that is where the center of the axle should sit. (This puts it 36" from the rear of the trailer.) From there I measured out for the bracket hangers and marked where they should go. I bought the springs and all the hangers with the axle and was told that the perch centers needed to be 1" longer than the spring. After double checking all my measurements I clamped down the front hangers and measured to the front of the receiver tube and was off only 1/8" which I was happy about.

I was going to tack the hangers in place but while I was tacking the front receiver I ran out of welding wire so I'll need to get more of that tomorrow. I think I'm going to buy a "big" spool this time.

Finally, after doing all of this I looked to see what time it was and saw that I could make it to Discount Tire if I hurried. I loaded up the two tires and recently picked up from a WC member and my two best spare rims and zipped over right before they closed. I'll pick them up on the way home from work tomorrow.

I got tracking for my spacers and they are supposed to be here tomorrow which is why I wanted to get the tires mounted. I should have all afternoon to work on the trailer and I expect I'll be able to have it rolling by this time tomorrow. I'm excited.

Question:
I'm wondering if I ought to drill out the hole for the hitch pin before I weld the receiver to the frame. It would probably be much easier this way, I wish I had a drill press to do that on. Its tacked on now but I could break those if I ought to do this first.

 

[I Lean]

100% drill the pin holes before you put the receivers on the trailer. Come over and use my drill press if you need to, I should be home most of the day tomorrow.

 

[nnnnnate]

100% drill the pin holes before you put the receivers on the trailer. Come over and use my drill press if you need to, I should be home most of the day tomorrow.

Thanks, I'll give you a ring tomorrow. I should be home from work about 3.

 

[zmotorsports]

Lookin' good Nate.

I too would drill the holes prior to welding the tubing.

Mike.

 

[nnnnnate]

Two steps forward three steps back. Its about time I had a big issue with this build, thats how I learn.

When I got home from work on Friday my spacers were sitting at the front door. I quickly opened them up and test fit them on the hubs to see if they cleared the hub center. Nope! I kind of expected that since while "working" I found a thread on ExPo that said Spidertrax were going to have a center cutout that would be too small. It was an old thread and I was hoping that things may have changed but it hadn't. The hub would fit the spacer about half way before the center of the spacer closed in and wouldn't let the hub center pass.

I had already planned to have Carl help drill out my receiver tube so I cut off the tack welds on that and cleaned it up before throwing it all in my Jeep to skip over to his place. He and Brad B (if I remember right) were playing in his shop already and I'm certain I interrupted some pretty serious man work that was going on. Despite me not knowing anything about what needed to be done Carl drilled the tube for me and I asked about what I had found with the spacers. He told me to bring them in and we'd throw them on the lathe which is what happened. As he was doing the lathe thing I was thinking about television from my formidable years and felt like grunting a la Tim "the toolman" Taylor but refrained. We chatted for a few minutes after getting the spacers finished and I asked some stupid questions that only a new guy would ask but Carl was great about giving me advice. We also talked about where I had chosen to place my axle and I decided to move it back a bit more. I had measured from the back to the front of the tongue deck but decided to alter that to measure to the front of the box.

When I got home I was excited to mock up everything to see how it all fit together. I quickly re-measured the receiver tube and tacked that into place before moving on to the axle placement. Without going to the garage to check, the axle moved back about 9" after changing the load measurements. I got the perches tacked and the springs attached then the axle loosely u-bolted to the springs. I still haven't put together the hubs but I wanted to see how the spacing was so I bolted the spacer to a hub then to one of the tires and lifted it up to the spindle. I slid the tire/spacer/hub assembly all the way on the axle and thought everything was great. Then I looked at it from the side to check clearance from the tire to the frame. There was a little, mainly though because the bolt heads were contacting the tire. No bueno.

So the axle is too narrow. I guess I'm not too surprised now two day later that I think about it. I confused myself and checked my numbers several times before I ordered the axle but its still wrong. I need to double check against the order sheet that the numbers match the order but I'm pretty sure it was made as ordered.

After talking to a couple guys yesterday about this while at Little Sahara these are the options I think I have:

1- Order a new axle. Pro: I should be able to order it right this time, no additional work needed from me. Con: $$$

2- Lengthen the axle. Pro: some work but not a ton, much cheaper than buying a new axle. Con: not confident I could do this myself, have to cut the perches off and re-weld.

3- Chop the frame. Pro: cheap, I can do this myself, Con: time to get it done, lose box width, need to cut spring perches off and move.

I'm leaning toward option 3 because I can do it myself and I have plenty of time on my hands. I need to do some more measurements but I'm thinking I need to narrow the frame by about 4" total.

If anyone has made it this far I appreciate any feedback on my conundrum. I'll try and get some pictures up a little later.

 

[sixstringsteve]

which bolt heads are contacting the tire?

option 4: sell your spacers and order some wider spacers, then have Carl machine them out again.

 

[Kevin B.]

I grunt like the Toolman every time I see Carl's shop. I try to do it quiet so he doesn't notice.

I think Steve's idea is the best balance of money and time. I'm a broke-ass bastard, so I'd probably lengthen the axle myself. It's more effort, but that just means you'll learn the lesson better. I've learned all my best lessons from my biggest ****ups.