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XJ spring questions....Rubicon Express answer....WTH

Brett

Brett

Meat-Hippy
Location
Salt Lake City Utah
I've been running around with the RE1462 (4.5") leaf packs on my XJ, hoping they'd settle in. I shot an email over to Rubicon Express earlier today as follows.

Hi, I picked up a set of your RE1462 rear leaf springs for my Cherokee about 6 months ago. I installed these just using the stock shackles. So far, they haven't settled at all. Are these springs designed to work with a extended shackle to "settle" in? They probably ended up with around 6 inches of lift, more than I had wanted.
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I got this reply, which sounds like an odd way to solve a problem, and that it doesn't address the shackle questions.

With the Jeep on the ground, loosen the front and rear spring bolts and the top shackle bolt. Have someone sit in the rear cargo area of the Cherokee and re-torque the bolts. This procedure should help lower the rear of your Cherokee a little.


Our springs do normally give a little more lift than advertised when they are installed on a used vehicle. The "4.5 inches" of lift is from new stock.
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Does this sound a little odd to anyone else?
 
Caleb

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
Yes, considering they are saying to make your spring bushings bind up...and that will lower your jeep. :rolleyes: You shouldn't have any binding and should be free moving through the entire cycle. If your bolts are so tight they are causing any binding on the bushings, then they are too tight.
 
Brett

Brett

Meat-Hippy
Location
Salt Lake City Utah
Supergper said:
Yes, considering they are saying to make your spring bushings bind up...and that will lower your jeep. :rolleyes: You shouldn't have any binding and should be free moving through the entire cycle. If your bolts are so tight they are causing any binding on the bushings, then they are too tight.
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That's what I was thinking too, "why would I want to force the spring??" :rofl:

If nothing, I'm thinking add a shackle, pull a couple leaves out to get it where it should. It was a pain in the donkey to get it bolted together with the stock shackle.....
 
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I Lean

I Lean

Mbryson's hairdresser
Vendor
Location
Utah
Maybe they're assuming you tightened the bolts while the Jeep was in the air....that will bind the bushings the other way, and make it stiffer and higher.

BUT, with the poly bushings they provide with their springs, I'd think the inner sleeve would be able to rotate inside the bushing anyway, which would negate any bind either direction.

Load the rear of your Jeep up with bags of cement or salt, and drive it with an extra bunch of weight for a couple weeks. It's easier than removing leaves.....
 
Brett

Brett

Meat-Hippy
Location
Salt Lake City Utah
I Lean said:
Maybe they're assuming you tightened the bolts while the Jeep was in the air....that will bind the bushings the other way, and make it stiffer and higher.

BUT, with the poly bushings they provide with their springs, I'd think the inner sleeve would be able to rotate inside the bushing anyway, which would negate any bind either direction.

Load the rear of your Jeep up with bags of cement or salt, and drive it with an extra bunch of weight for a couple weeks. It's easier than removing leaves.....
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I've thought about hitting up Home Depot for a load.....I'll probably try that in the mean time, too much work in winter to pull springs apart!
 
GOAT

GOAT

Back from the beyond
Location
Roanoke, VA
Typical RE (or most for that matter) spring issue. You almost have to order the rear springs 1" lower than the front or else you end up with it being jacked up in the rear. You can add weight to the back or throw some spacers on the front to level it, but thats just a bandaid.


IMHO I'd find someone that has some 3- 3.5" packs and see if they'll swap you.
 
F

Floydargue

New guy
Location
Salt Lake City
How about this - how do they flex? If they are flexing as expected when you twist your jeep up, then go ahead with any method above that makes you happy. If they are stiffer than you wanted or don't flex well at all, there may be a binding issue that needs resolution. The stock shackle may be maxed out at ride height and unable to compress much. The stock springs sit somewhat flat, so when articulating, it moves back and forward only a little. With the 4.5's, you have a pretty big arch, and it needs more ability to move back under compression that it did before. A 2 inch shackle and 2.5" springs may be something to think about.
I was worried about the same thing when I got mine. I got 4.5" RE's and 2 inch lift JKS shackles for a 6.5 net and it was sitting way too high in the rear. After discovering a binding issue with the shackle and fixing it, they settled just dandy. Now I need new ones since I have "s" -ed the crap out of them with torque...and that initial binding probably did not help.
 
XJEEPER

XJEEPER

Well-Known Member
Location
Highland Springs
My experience with RE1462's is that they will settle if you use them and you really need a boomerang type shackle for them to ride right. My guess is that you haven't flexed your rig up much since installing the springs and that your shackle is running in a near vertical position at static height. You should net between 5"-5.5" of lift from these after break-in.

Measure your static height with the Jeep sitting level. Run over to Walmart and buy 300lbs of softener salt (buy the bag without holes in them) and drive it around for a couple of weeks, flexing the rear with the extra weight will help too. Then take the salt out and re-measure. I also like to run with my upper shackle bolt snug, but not tight when breaking in new springs.

Other thoughts......I'm amused when folks complain about their RE leaves giving them too much lift...I wonder how happy they would be if they were like OME leaves that loose half their advertised height after break-in?

There is a method to the RE madness, the expectation is that the average XJer will install a HD rear bumper, carry a full size spare and some gear in the back, so they compensate for the added load with their spring pack. This has been common knowledge among XJers for some time......which is why I designed the lift on my current XJ with RE 1463's (3.5"), 2" tall anti-wrap perches and a custom 1" lift boomerang shackle. Net lift is 6" after break-in and the flatter 1463 spring flexes better than the 1462.

RE makes a great spring for the buck, they flex well and ride nice on the street too.
If you want better, National Spring makes a great riding, flexing 10 leaf pack, plan on spending about $600 for a pair.
Hope this helps, post up your results....before and after measurements too.
 
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Milner

Milner

formerly "rckcrlr"
Location
Hiding behind a camera
The last set of springs in Angie's were the 4.5 RE's and they were by far the best all around spring I had tried in it. They did settle. I did load some weight in the back help them settle faster. Ended up with the boomerang shackle and a 1" wedge block to get it at the 5.5" I wanted.

JMHO but Nationals are a waste of money. I tried them in the Bronco and the XJ. both custom sets, both flexed great, neither could support ANY weight, and both sagged to practically no lift in a very short time. Great for a race truck that gets new springs every few races, but NOT for the average trail rig....
 
Brett

Brett

Meat-Hippy
Location
Salt Lake City Utah
I'm going to add a boomerang shackle to it and load the rear up with weight to see about getting it lower. If that doesn't work, well, I'll pull a leaf or two out of it........


Anyone have any RE1463's? ;)
 
I Lean

I Lean

Mbryson's hairdresser
Vendor
Location
Utah
Isn't the boomerang shackle longer than a stock one, so it'll provide some extra lift?
 
XJEEPER

XJEEPER

Well-Known Member
Location
Highland Springs
Brett said:
;)


I think that MJ shackles are 1 inch longer than XJ, might be an option...
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Try, but the angle that the shackle operates is key to ride quality. The 1462's are longer overall and are arched tighter than stock, along with increased spring rate, which provides lift. This arch effectively shortens the operating distance of the spring eye to eye, which pulls your shackle towards the front of your rig. Make sense?

The main purpose of the shackle is to alllow the spring to flex without bind, as it is compressed. For any leaf spring to function properly and give you the best ride, the shackle needs to operate in this position- \ . If, at static, the shackle is in this position | , or even worse / , the springs energy from upward flex is initially transferred to the body as it cycles, making the ride harsh.
There'a a mathamatical equation to support this, what I know is from firsthand experience.

The other reason to go with a boomerang shackle on an XJ is to provide added clearance at the rear crossmember under full articulation.

Break the springs in first. Pulling out a leaf with shorten the life of the spring pack, as they are designed to work together. If you still hate it, then sell the 1462's and install 1463's.

You could also go with a set of shackle relocation brackets or fab your own setup, which provides about 1" of lift and allows you to adjust for different spring lengths, desired ride/flex, etc.
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=956630
 
Brett

Brett

Meat-Hippy
Location
Salt Lake City Utah
XJEEPER said:
Try, but the angle that the shackle operates is key to ride quality. The 1462's are longer overall and are arched tighter than stock, along with increased spring rate, which provides lift. This arch effectively shortens the operating distance of the spring eye to eye, which pulls your shackle towards the front of your rig. Make sense?

The main purpose of the shackle is to alllow the spring to flex without bind, as it is compressed. For any leaf spring to function properly and give you the best ride, the shackle needs to operate in this position- \ . If, at static, the shackle is in this position | , or even worse / , the springs energy from upward flex is initially transferred to the body as it cycles, making the ride harsh.
There'a a mathamatical equation to support this, what I know is from firsthand experience.

The other reason to go with a boomerang shackle on an XJ is to provide added clearance at the rear crossmember under full articulation.

Break the springs in first. Pulling out a leaf with shorten the life of the spring pack, as they are designed to work together. If you still hate it, then sell the 1462's and install 1463's.

You could also go with a set of shackle relocation brackets or fab your own setup, which provides about 1" of lift and allows you to adjust for different spring lengths, desired ride/flex, etc.
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=956630
Click to expand...

I'm guessing I should probably add in a shackle with these springs to help break them in easier, is that right?
 
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