Political Gender Issues Discussion

I don’t have much that I want to say in this thread, but I do feel the need to say that I support love, kindness, accepting others, for who they are, or who they want to be, I believe that empathy is often lost on an idea, but easily found, when looking into the eyes of another human.

My house is and always will be a safe space for adults or children, regardless of pronouns, regardless of gender, regardless of sexual orientation.

Herzog said:

Nah, you're right on this one... I was getting a little heated and made a dumb straw-man. But I still stand on the idea that none of this is happening organically... at least not the catalyst.

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I appreciate that. I apologize for the stupid lizard people crack, that was over the line too.

Tonkaman said:

Thanks for the suggestion. I’m I’ll give it a read, I need all the help I can get with my kid

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I disagree. Your kid is one of the most stable self reliant kids I've met. But she is an early teen girl now so I feel for you😁

J-mobzz said:

I don’t have much that I want to say in this thread, but I do feel the need to say that I support love, kindness, accepting others, for who they are, or who they want to be, I believe that empathy is often lost on an idea, but easily found, when looking into the eyes of another human.

My house is and always will be a safe space for adults or children, regardless of pronouns, regardless of gender, regardless of sexual orientation.

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I’m not saying you’re insinuating this but it’s something that really bugs me, an agenda that the super woke are pushing: if you don’t fly a rainbow flag and have your pronouns in your email signature you’re not an “ally” and hate all LGBTQ people, kids included.

THAT BUGS ME SO MUCH. Someone at work asked me if I consider myself to be an ally and I told them that labeling it is nonsensical to me and just being a decent human being is all it is. Just because I am worried about the way the world/social media is somehow pushing kids in the direction of gender dysphoria or even a general desire to be different to be seen doesn’t mean I don’t treat everyone with respect and love. Just because I don’t want kids transitioning or taking testosterone/blockers doesn’t mean I don’t believe they’re going through something. Rant off.

N-Smooth said:

I’m not saying you’re insinuating this but it’s something that really bugs me, an agenda that the super woke are pushing: if you don’t fly a rainbow flag and have your pronouns in your email signature you’re not an “ally” and hate all LGBTQ people, kids included.

THAT BUGS ME SO MUCH. Someone at work asked me if I consider myself to be an ally and I told them that labeling it is nonsensical to me and just being a decent human being is all it is. Just because I am worried about the way the world/social media is somehow pushing kids in the direction of gender dysphoria or even a general desire to be different to be seen doesn’t mean I don’t treat everyone with respect and love. Just because I don’t want kids transitioning or taking testosterone/blockers doesn’t mean I don’t believe they’re going through something. Rant off.

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So….not an ally?

N-Smooth said:

if you don’t drive a new Gladiator or have your NAPA compressor mods in your email signature you’re not an “ally”

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Get woke, nerd.

glockman said:

I disagree. Your kid is one of the most stable self reliant kids I've met. But she is an early teen girl now so I feel for you😁

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Thanks. It’s good to know that I’m not the only one she has fooled. Raising a kid is a tough job, sometimes I’m not sure I’ll survive it.

N-Smooth said:

I’m not saying you’re insinuating this but it’s something that really bugs me, an agenda that the super woke are pushing: if you don’t fly a rainbow flag and have your pronouns in your email signature you’re not an “ally” and hate all LGBTQ people, kids included.

THAT BUGS ME SO MUCH. Someone at work asked me if I consider myself to be an ally and I told them that labeling it is nonsensical to me and just being a decent human being is all it is. Just because I am worried about the way the world/social media is somehow pushing kids in the direction of gender dysphoria or even a general desire to be different to be seen doesn’t mean I don’t treat everyone with respect and love. Just because I don’t want kids transitioning or taking testosterone/blockers doesn’t mean I don’t believe they’re going through something. Rant off.

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I’m not insinuating anything, and I certainly don’t care what peoples personal opinions are on the matter.

I just care how people treat other people.

That’s all I was stating is that my stand will always be, be kind to people, be respectful to people. And let’s try not to get so caught up In our own agendas, that we forget, sometimes the things that we say can be hurtful to people.

That teenage sexually abused former foster kid that wants to transition to being a female when they become an adult and uses the pronouns she/her comes home, crying from birthday parties because kids hear angry talk in their house about how kids shouldn’t do this and they shouldn’t do that and how stupid the use of pronouns are they bring it to a birthday party and they take it out on that 15-year-old because they don’t understand the time and place it’s appropriate because their kids too and they bring some of that aggression that they learned from these conversations they overhear their parents having and they don’t have the empathy. They don’t know the history. They just wanna be right like their parents.

J-mobzz said:

I’m not insinuating anything, and I certainly don’t care what peoples personal opinions are on the matter.

I just care how people treat other people.

That’s all I was stating is that my stand will always be, be kind to people, be respectful to people. And let’s try not to get so caught up In our own agendas, that we forget, sometimes the things that we say can be hurtful to people.

That teenage sexually abused former foster kid that wants to transition to being a female when they become an adult and uses the pronouns she/her comes home, crying from birthday parties because kids hear angry talk in their house about how kids shouldn’t do this and they shouldn’t do that and how stupid the use of pronouns are they bring it to a birthday party and they take it out on that 15-year-old because they don’t understand the time and place it’s appropriate because their kids too and they bring some of that aggression that they learned from these conversations they overhear their parents having and they don’t have the empathy. They don’t know the history. They just wanna be right like their parents.

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I have struggled with where the line of empathy ends and enabling people begins. I totally get what you're saying Jake. Just be nice to people. My previous stance was that I wanted to enable the least human suffering that I could. I'm not sure that's the right take anymore.
Norms like gender exist for a reason. They have allowed humans to survive for centuries, most of them are actually good for our species. Figuring out how you fit into the world is hard and it seems like telling teenagers or young adults they are fine how they are is the most empathetic and human thing to do. But not fitting in and finding ways to adapt is key to social well being in my opinion. The reason kids in the US today have record levels of anxiety is because they were never forced to adapt. They don't know how to cope because people told them they were fin wearing pajamas to high school and everyone should just accept them as they are. That's not healthy. If your best friend puts on 100lbs and is drinking every day, telling them they are fine that way only harms them. A true friend tells them the hard truth in a compassionate way. Like, hey man I'm worried about you. Let's start riding bikes on Wednesday nights.

In my life experience, the most kind, generous and interesting people didn't have a smooth road. They had to struggle. That made them the amazing people they are. Most of the people I like most on this forum made a shit ton of mistakes and are great people because of the consequences of those mistakes and the fact that they were intelligent enough to see that they were effing up. Most of them changed who they associated with and started getting better external input. I know that was the case for me.

Well said Chad.

I’ve struggled with how to put my thoughts into words on this and I better not even try.

But that covers it pretty dang well

It feels like most people are fine with adults living their own lives however they want, calling themselves whatever gender they want. But feelings get strong when the pro-acceptance mob tells adults they’re hateful if they don’t bow to every demand of the trans army and their allies, and then that message gets sent down to the kids.

That and when “Bulge” Thomas gets a women’s swimming trophy.

The toughest one is struggling teens. The line between wanting them to acknowledge that there is an objective reality, and wanting them to feel loved can be difficult to know. I think I just want them to not be targeted by transgender propaganda to the extent possible, while at the same time making sure they know they have inherent value and will always have a place in society.

N-Smooth said:

I’m not saying you’re insinuating this but it’s something that really bugs me, an agenda that the super woke are pushing: if you don’t fly a rainbow flag and have your pronouns in your email signature you’re not an “ally” and hate all LGBTQ people, kids included.

THAT BUGS ME SO MUCH. Someone at work asked me if I consider myself to be an ally and I told them that labeling it is nonsensical to me and just being a decent human being is all it is. Just because I am worried about the way the world/social media is somehow pushing kids in the direction of gender dysphoria or even a general desire to be different to be seen doesn’t mean I don’t treat everyone with respect and love. Just because I don’t want kids transitioning or taking testosterone/blockers doesn’t mean I don’t believe they’re going through something. Rant off.

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I agree. The false dichotomy is rampant now days.

J-mobzz said:

sometimes the things that we say can be hurtful to people

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I agree that being a decent human to other people is a good way to live life.... but let's be real here. Life isn't a padded room. There's really nowhere you can really go to not be 'hurt' by words. I learned this early in my teens... The day I decided to not let my perceived judgement of others dictate my life is when everything changed for me. No matter who you are or what you do, somebody isn't gonna like you. Boo hoo. Get over it, I say.

The irony of it is that the "hurtfulness" is nearly always self projected and self perceived. The reality is that people are just too busy dealing with their own issues to really give a shit about your man dress. I may pass judgement in the moment, but I'm not gonna ruin my life about it. I mean, I talk shit on riced out trucks. Do they need a safe space too?

johngottfredson said:

It feels like most people are fine with adults living their own lives however they want, calling themselves whatever gender they want. But feelings get strong when the pro-acceptance mob tells adults they’re hateful if they don’t bow to every demand of the trans army and their allies, and then that message gets sent down to the kids.

That and when “Bulge” Thomas gets a women’s swimming trophy.

The toughest one is struggling teens. The line between wanting them to acknowledge that there is an objective reality, and wanting them to feel loved can be difficult to know. I think I just want them to not be targeted by transgender propaganda to the extent possible, while at the same time making sure they know they have inherent value and will always have a place in society.

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Mutual respect and mutually assure destruction. I used to think people were like me and were happy to let other people do what they want. I don't think that's as wide spread as I used to. I've seen the underdog LGBT crowd fight back against the ultra conservative religious crowd for freedom to do as they please only to see them get a platform and do exactly what the ultra conservative religious crowd used to do. The current Democratic party is basically the 90's Republicans trying to shut down gangster rap and nine inch nails concerts.

Herzog said:

The irony of it is that the "hurtfulness" is nearly always self projected and self perceived. The reality is that people are just too busy dealing with their own issues to really give a shit about your man dress.

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This was the #1 struggle of my teens until a friend told me “people probably think about you less than you think” and it changed my outlook entirely. A lot of people could use that advice.

I wont retread what everyone else has posted. But i will say its a crock of poo that a certain subsection of our population gets to re-write the very basis of our understanding of the world and how we interact with people and the rest of us get no say?

"Oh youre not a gender snow flake so you HAVE NO IDEA what its like to be a gender snowflake and as such, you get a say NO in it. So from now on woman can cut their forearms off to make a meat pickle, grown men suffering from AGP get to shower with your highschool aged daughter, oh and if you dont call the purple haired sasquatch in accounting XI/Xer youre fired!!! BIGOT!!!"

Yeah, naw. I aint going down without a fight.

My opinion on all of this is as long as it doesn’t cost me money, people hound be allowed to do what they want. My problem with it is when the military is using federal tax dollars to pay for sex changes and paid leave while they recover. If you want to go find a sex change from your like mi def people, be my guest. But it should not be a burden placed on the tax payers in any way.

I do feel line there’s a cultural problem especially in Utah. With the whole love the sinner hate the sin. Well, that hate shows itself in lots of unintended ways. We have a new neighbor that moved in and one of the kids wants to be non binary and be called a they/them. It literally has zero impact on my life if this child wants that. My daughter was at a different neighbors house playing and talking in the front yard when the non binary rides by and says hi to my daughter. My daughter says hi, her friend asks who that was and my daughters her and says they use they/them pronouns, not she/her. And the next day my daughter went over and proceeded to get a lecture from the mom about how evil that is and they don’t use different pronouns in this house, blah blah blah. My daughter came home in tears. She’s 11, so super dramatic but I don’t understand why the mom felt the need to bite her head off over that. I’m not saying we need to all go to rally’s and wave flags but I think everyone should live and let live.

comingdown said:

My opinion on all of this is as long as it doesn’t cost me money, people hound be allowed to do what they want. My problem with it is when the military is using federal tax dollars to pay for sex changes and paid leave while they recover. If you want to go find a sex change from your like mi def people, be my guest. But it should not be a burden placed on the tax payers in any way.

I do feel line there’s a cultural problem especially in Utah. With the whole love the sinner hate the sin. Well, that hate shows itself in lots of unintended ways. We have a new neighbor that moved in and one of the kids wants to be non binary and be called a they/them. It literally has zero impact on my life if this child wants that. My daughter was at a different neighbors house playing and talking in the front yard when the non binary rides by and says hi to my daughter. My daughter says hi, her friend asks who that was and my daughters her and says they use they/them pronouns, not she/her. And the next day my daughter went over and proceeded to get a lecture from the mom about how evil that is and they don’t use different pronouns in this house, blah blah blah. My daughter came home in tears. She’s 11, so super dramatic but I don’t understand why the mom felt the need to bite her head off over that. I’m not saying we need to all go to rally’s and wave flags but I think everyone should live and let live.

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That neighbor's attitude is a perfect example. Thanks for sharing it. I also suspect that if asked she would deny any form of 'hate' although actions show otherwise.

As to the funding of surgery, my only comment there is that having those outside the medical profession defining what is or is not medically necessary is probably a bad idea.

Houndoc said:

As to the funding of surgery, my only comment there is that having those outside the medical profession defining what is or is not medically necessary is probably a bad idea.

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Oh, the people who profit from the procedures should certainly be making that policy... sure.

Nevermind the fact that this is just another common sense issue. Who'd figure that cutting off your natural body parts would cause all kinds of problems and depression issues? Let alone, doing it to kids who don't even have a chance to grow up and figure it out on their own.

Houndoc said:

That neighbor's attitude is a perfect example. Thanks for sharing it. I also suspect that if asked she would deny any form of 'hate' although actions show otherwise.

As to the funding of surgery, my only comment there is that having those outside the medical profession defining what is or is not medically necessary is probably a bad idea.

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So a 14 year old girl should have a double mastectomy if she so decides? And us non-professionals should have no say?

Yah, naw. Thats pure evil to me.