Political Gender Issues Discussion

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Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
My 14yr old daughter came home yesterday and told me one of her friends attempted suicide on Tuesday night. It breaks my heart for them (supposedly non-binary all of a sudden, but really it is likely they are trying to find a place they feel they "fit in") My daughter went through the same thoughts of "could I have done more" I told her she did everything she could. As soon as there was any kind of inclination she reached out to them, but it didn't stop them. It's scary enough when it's an adult, or someone that is more responsible for their own actions....but when a child attempts these things, it breaks my heart.

The kid is a boy and is likely on the spectrum. They have never exhibited any inclination of being feminine or non-binary and I think they are just trying to find a place they feels they isn't alone. They is what everyone would call a nerd. They like D&D, computers, anime, etc. They have a good friend group with my daughter and about 5-6 others. Sometimes the feelings of isolation are just too great. They are in a facility for now and I hope they really get the help they need.

I am referencing them as they out of respect for my daughter and the situation. I do not believe it is how they really feel, but I have also only directly interacted with them a few times, but have seen them and they have gone to school with my daughter for years at a private school, so you get to know of them a bit more.
I don't think the vast majority of us can remotely understand what those with gender identity issues feel or think. It is so far out of our personal experience.

However, probably one of the worst things we can do from a support and mental health aspect (knowing that as a group LGBTQ+ youth have very high suicide rates) is to question that they are "really" feeling what they say they are.
 

Jesser04

Well-Known Member
Location
Kaysville Utah
I don't think the vast majority of us can remotely understand what those with gender identity issues feel or think. It is so far out of our personal experience.

However, probably one of the worst things we can do from a support and mental health aspect (knowing that as a group LGBTQ+ youth have very high suicide rates) is to question that they are "really" feeling what they say they are.
I’ll gladly question my kid if he comes to me and tells me he now wants to be referred to as she/her I’ll still love him but I’ll definitely question him.
 

glockman

I hate Jeep trucks
Location
Pleasant Grove
Kids feel all sort of things that aren't validated by reality. Teenagers have tons of brain chemistry and hormone stuff happening. It's a rough time for pretty much everyone. One thing that is clear in the stats is that American teens are struggling in the last decade. Suicide and depression are rampant. If you are a parent, you should read, the coddling of the American mind. It was really insightful for me to see how things like free play increased kids self confidence and ability to cope with situations.
 

02SE

Active Member
Location
Millcreek, UT
Kids feel all sort of things that aren't validated by reality. Teenagers have tons of brain chemistry and hormone stuff happening. It's a rough time for pretty much everyone. One thing that is clear in the stats is that American teens are struggling in the last decade. Suicide and depression are rampant. If you are a parent, you should read, the coddling of the American mind. It was really insightful for me to see how things like free play increased kids self confidence and ability to cope with situations.

I don't know that teens struggling is a new thing. I think it's always been that way. I can name the people I knew in high school in the 80's who killed themselves, and since. I recall KSL even did a News Story trying to figure out why so many kids at my high school were committing suicide.

Talking to my Aunt recently, I found out there were the same issues of fitting in for her and other teens, back in the 40's...

We all just do our best. If you're a parent, be involved in your kids life, and give them the benefit of your adult perspective.
 

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Wyoming
I’ll gladly question my kid if he comes to me and tells me he now wants to be referred to as she/her I’ll still love him but I’ll definitely question him.
I'll tell you one thing, there's certainly a correlation of public school kids and kids questioning their gender. It's not an organic thing that is happening, there is absolutely money and agenda behind it. Homeschool kids don't seem to have this identity issue... unless you let them watch netflix all day long.

Interesting.
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
I'll tell you one thing, there's certainly a correlation of public school kids and kids questioning their gender. It's not an organic thing that is happening, there is absolutely money and agenda behind it. Homeschool kids don't seem to have this identity issue... unless you let them watch netflix all day long.

Interesting.
Are they not having identity issues or just not as willing to openly discuss it?

I personally know several families that home school their children who have struggled with gender identity.

There is certainly a strong correlation between home schooling and stronger religious/social conservative leanings. Those are the very situations where it is very difficult for someone to be open about gender or sexual issues for fear of being shunned or worse.

Considering that public school teachers are our neighbors, friends, family members, fellow church members etc I don't buy the idea that schools are out there trying to lead kids astray.
 

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Wyoming
Are they not having identity issues or just not as willing to openly discuss it?

I personally know several families that home school their children who have struggled with gender identity.

There is certainly a strong correlation between home schooling and stronger religious/social conservative leanings. Those are the very situations where it is very difficult for someone to be open about gender or sexual issues for fear of being shunned or worse.

Considering that public school teachers are our neighbors, friends, family members, fellow church members etc I don't buy the idea that schools are out there trying to lead kids astray.
We don't home school for religions reasons. We home school because the public system is a dumpster fire. We have a large home school community here and I can tell you for certain that none of those kids are struggling to talk about whether they are a cat or a dog.

Something is severely wrong though. This is the first time in known history that we've had an epidemic of gender mental illness and the fact that some of you think that it's organic is insane to me. There's BIG money in entertainment pushing this, if you can't see that then that's pretty weird.

My conspiracy take: Stop feeding the kids soy and netflix. Strengthen your family unit by spending time with your kids. The weirdest thing in the world to me is when parents celebrate their kids going back to school. That shit is dark.
 

Kevin B.

Not often wrong. Never quite right.
Moderator
Location
Vehicular limbo
This is the first time in known history that we've had an epidemic of gender mental illness and the fact that some of you think that it's organic is insane to me.

An increasing amount of awareness combined with an increasing amount of tolerance is not only leading to more people with gender dysphoria discovering it and talking about it, but it's also driving an increase of AGBs. That's all it is, and the fact that you think there's more to it than that is pretty insane to me too.

Let me be clear. I believe that gender dysphoria is a mental illness, not a physiological phenomenon, and I think it should be treated as such. But we have a lot of folks indulging in one mental illness or another and at the end of the day if a person wants to change genders and can find a doctor willing to help them with that, more power to them. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, right? If pretending they're a gender that doesn't match their biological gender makes them happy and it isn't hurting anyone else, more power to them I say. The world could use more happiness anyway.

But there is no overarching conspiracy to turn the kids gay or trans or whatever, and the idea is frankly preposterous. What you're seeing, Shane, is a greater acceptance of the idea combined with more people eager to help kids who may be suffering from gender dysphoria. That leads to more kids using the idea of gender dysphoria to stand out, get attention, etc, just like kids have been doing for as long there have been kids. That's all it is. Those kids aren't dumb, they'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. This is a cultural shift, a development of ideas becoming mainstream. It's not the end of the world, and it's definitely not lizard people.
 

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Wyoming
But we have a lot of folks indulging in one mental illness or another and at the end of the day if a person wants to change genders and can find a doctor willing to help them with that, more power to them. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, right? If pretending they're a gender that doesn't match their biological gender makes them happy and it isn't hurting anyone else, more power to them I say. The world could use more happiness anyway.
Interesting. I have no problem with adults doing whatever they want to their bodies. I'm more concerned about the kids who 'transition' and realize it didn't make them happy. Is that what you'd call:
The world could use more happiness anyway.
?
For a group that tends to be highly suicidal, that doesn't sound like happiness. It sounds like something is very wrong.
 

Tonkaman

Well-Known Member
Location
West Jordan
If you are a parent, you should read, the coddling of the American mind. It was really insightful for me to see how things like free play increased kids self confidence and ability to cope with situations.
Thanks for the suggestion. I’m I’ll give it a read, I need all the help I can get with my kid
 

Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
But I'm the conspiracy "bad guy" because I'd rather look for the reason it's happening rather than slap bandaids on the symptoms. People are loading their kids up with hormones and psychedelics and you're all "this is normal!".

Wow.

What I think is really driving the shift is people looking for was to stand out and get attention. With the increased usage of social media, we as a society see A LOT MORE of what we used to never see because it was far away from us. Now, it is everywhere, and it gets attention. Kids see "influencers" on social media finding more and more "far-out" ways to get attention, and yes, it is more widely accepted, so they continue to do it. Many people want to "fit in" but also have to do so by "standing out" They want attention and join in what everyone else is doing, but also have to be unique and be labeled as something now. If you don't have a unique label you aren't anybody.

I saw 2 articles alone yesterday about new "sexualities" It was ridiculous. One was a piece be a female that all of a sudden found the term that described her sexuality. She wanted to find people she fit in with, but had to be unique and stand out as well. The 2 new to me sexualities are gynosexual and abrosexual. Apparently abrosexual means fluid....as in, your sexuality changes and can be one thing at one time and another at another. She felt like a lesbian for awhile, then at times she felt bi-sexual. So really, she found a term that means nothing, but for some reason made her feel included and yet rather then just say she's bi-sexual, she had to use the unique term of abrosexual I mean, really? WTF is that? Gynosexual is basically being attracted to feminine traits and characteristics. So breasts, higher pitched voices, longer hair, softer features, etc....except those don't have to be on a female. I mean really? People are continuing to find ways to be unique, get attention and yet at the same time find a community they fit in with. How many sexualities are their really? Gay, straight, bi, A. Outside of that, I think you are just compartMENTALizing each one deeper and deeper.

Now, this is not to say that real gender dysphoria doesn't exist because it obviously does. I agree with @Kevin B. I believe it is a mental illness. The real question is what is the "fix" Do we treat it as such or do we let it be and let people live how they want? I say, let them live. No need to really spend time and money trying to fix it, just let them do what they want because ultimately it doesn't hurt anyone else. I believe with social media and seeing people struggle with it in rea life, because generally, the online community can be more accepting then the person direct communcity, so it became more visible. People felt bad for these people and started to accept it more. Then, those that needed/wanted attention sort of "felt" that way and began using it, or some form of it for attention. That also got more views and fed the beast as it were. I feel the idea of non-binary is a way for people to feel special and that their 'less then normal' characteristics of their biological gender are not considered weird. To me it's basically a tomboy or an efeminet man.

To men, this is where it comes from. Mental Health is a tough thing to understand. With social media being a cancer (and a blessing in so many ways) it is only becoming more and more visible, accepted, and hijacked for people to get attention.
 

Tonkaman

Well-Known Member
Location
West Jordan
What I think is really driving the shift is people looking for was to stand out and get attention. With the increased usage of social media, we as a society see A LOT MORE of what we used to never see because it was far away from us. Now, it is everywhere, and it gets attention. Kids see "influencers" on social media finding more and more "far-out" ways to get attention, and yes, it is more widely accepted, so they continue to do it. Many people want to "fit in" but also have to do so by "standing out" They want attention and join in what everyone else is doing, but also have to be unique and be labeled as something now. If you don't have a unique label you aren't anybody.

I saw 2 articles alone yesterday about new "sexualities" It was ridiculous. One was a piece be a female that all of a sudden found the term that described her sexuality. She wanted to find people she fit in with, but had to be unique and stand out as well. The 2 new to me sexualities are gynosexual and abrosexual. Apparently abrosexual means fluid....as in, your sexuality changes and can be one thing at one time and another at another. She felt like a lesbian for awhile, then at times she felt bi-sexual. So really, she found a term that means nothing, but for some reason made her feel included and yet rather then just say she's bi-sexual, she had to use the unique term of abrosexual I mean, really? WTF is that? Gynosexual is basically being attracted to feminine traits and characteristics. So breasts, higher pitched voices, longer hair, softer features, etc....except those don't have to be on a female. I mean really? People are continuing to find ways to be unique, get attention and yet at the same time find a community they fit in with. How many sexualities are their really? Gay, straight, bi, A. Outside of that, I think you are just compartMENTALizing each one deeper and deeper.

Now, this is not to say that real gender dysphoria doesn't exist because it obviously does. I agree with @Kevin B. I believe it is a mental illness. The real question is what is the "fix" Do we treat it as such or do we let it be and let people live how they want? I say, let them live. No need to really spend time and money trying to fix it, just let them do what they want because ultimately it doesn't hurt anyone else. I believe with social media and seeing people struggle with it in rea life, because generally, the online community can be more accepting then the person direct communcity, so it became more visible. People felt bad for these people and started to accept it more. Then, those that needed/wanted attention sort of "felt" that way and began using it, or some form of it for attention. That also got more views and fed the beast as it were. I feel the idea of non-binary is a way for people to feel special and that their 'less then normal' characteristics of their biological gender are not considered weird. To me it's basically a tomboy or an efeminet man.

To men, this is where it comes from. Mental Health is a tough thing to understand. With social media being a cancer (and a blessing in so many ways) it is only becoming more and more visible, accepted, and hijacked for people to get attention.
I completely agree
 

N-Smooth

Smooth Gang Founding Member
Location
UT
Kids, especially teens struggling is nothing new. I’ve already had multiple talks with my boys (11 and 8) about the different stuff they’ll see and hear at school and we have an open line of communication. Also they’ve been taught from a young age what their place is in the world, that they are children of God and that they matter. I think we’re ticking all the boxes so far but it’s impossible to guess what challenges they’ll face.

There’s definitely some big change happening, obviously with the uptick of gender dysphoria. Weird times.
 
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