NJ Drone swarms

spencurai said:

Do NOT interfere with drone use. You do NOT own the airspace over your home. You are NOT entitled to shoot down a drone flying over your property. If you can hit the drone with a rake then you might have a case in court that you were being unjustly harassed but other than that you have no expectation of privacy and you can do to jail for shooting down a drone. If you shoot down my drone, I am going to legally ruin your life. The most expensive drone I have been flying this year costs as much as a nice used truck.

Click to expand...

IMO this needs to change. If you're within scatter shot range of a home, the drone should be downed. I think it will change with new case law in the future, but yea there's no reason to try to down one that's not harassing you and not on your property.

Herzog said:

Shooting A Drone In Wyoming Could Lead To 10 Years In Prison, Loss Of Gun Rights

The legal consequences for shooting down a drone in Wyoming range from a misdemeanor to a felony charge that could result in up to 10 years in prison and…

cowboystatedaily.com

IMO this needs to change. If you're within scatter shot range of a home, the drone should be downed. I think it will change with new case law in the future, but yea there's no reason to try to down one that's not harassing you and not on your property.

Click to expand...

Why do you feel that open season on drones should begin? You could kill someone by disabling a drone and having it fall on them? You could start a forest fire that causes billions of dollars if you shoot down a drone and cause a battery fire. Why are you afraid of drones? I am genuinely curious. Do you also feel like you should be able to shoot murder someone taking your picture with a camera phone or a long lens DSLR? Case law on privacy has been pretty set in stone for decades.

Not what we are talking about here but..............

Very few things upset me like backpacking into a lake, being exhausted but excited to have some peaceful fishing/pondering/family time only to have a noisy drone flying all over the area filming some idiot with a fishing channel on you tube with 10 followers. I've had some significant altercations with these folks. It may be legal, but it isn't cool and you deserve a beating if you can't respect other's opportunity to enjoy nature peacefully.

I put drones right up there with side by sides - they have a legitimate purpose, but most users seems to be entitled jerks.

Not all users, certainly. But most.

spencurai said:

Why do you feel that open season on drones should begin? You could kill someone by disabling a drone and having it fall on them? You could start a forest fire that causes billions of dollars if you shoot down a drone and cause a battery fire. Why are you afraid of drones? I am genuinely curious. Do you also feel like you should be able to shoot murder someone taking your picture with a camera phone or a long lens DSLR? Case law on privacy has been pretty set in stone for decades.

Click to expand...

I didn't say anything of the sort. I just said that if a drone is within scatter shot (which isn't very far at all) of a private home, then it should not be illegal to down it. Other than that I don't see justification in downing them (unless being harassed and followed...?)

But apparently that will kill thousands and burn down forests? Dang.

spencurai said:

Do you also feel like you should be able to shoot murder someone taking your picture with a camera phone or a long lens DSLR? Case law on privacy has been pretty set in stone for decades.

Click to expand...

Did I say "shoot" the drone operator? No, I did not. Don't be ridiculous. If your DLSR is flying around my house, I believe it should be legal to shoot it down. It's not a human.

ID Bronco said:

Not what we are talking about here but..............

Very few things upset me like backpacking into a lake, being exhausted but excited to have some peaceful fishing/pondering/family time only to have a noisy drone flying all over the area filming some idiot with a fishing channel on you tube with 10 followers. I've had some significant altercations with these folks. It may be legal, but it isn't cool and you deserve a beating if you can't respect other's opportunity to enjoy nature peacefully.

Click to expand...

So what things in the outdoors don't bother you or is it just the fact that someone is flying a drone? Do outboard motors bother you? Do motorcycle motors bother you? Do vehicle motors bother you? Do helicopters and airplanes flying over bother you? What is it about drones that has caused you to be so aggressive in your response? I am 6'4" and +300lbs so people tend to shut the **** up when they approach me with aggression so I am genuinely trying to learn what triggers people so much. A drone sounds like a swarm of bees, not a two stroke 125cc at 8000rpm.

A part of me has to empathize with the tree huggers that hate all motorized things in the outdoors. I get it. People want peace and quiet but where do you personally draw the line because it appears that the presence of a drone is a step too far.

Herzog said:

I didn't say anything of the sort. I just said that if a drone is within scatter shot (which isn't very far at all) of a private home, then it should not be illegal to down it. Other than that I don't see justification in downing them (unless being harassed and followed...?)

But apparently that will kill thousands and burn down forests? Dang.


Did I say "shoot" the drone operator? No, I did not. Don't be ridiculous.

Click to expand...

Why do you want to destroy the personal property of others? What justification do you have for the desire to destroy a drone that is operating within range of a shotgun? I legitimately do not understand the desire of others to destroy drones. What is the drone doing that you find so reprehensible?

So If I were standing in the street taking a picture/video with a DSLR and 300mm lens I could nearly read your DNA. Do you feel the same aggression for the camera and lens? If so? Why?

Why are people so incredibly upset with the idea that someone MIGHT look at them with a drone?

spencurai said:

Why do you want to destroy the personal property of others? What justification do you have for the desire to destroy a drone that is operating within range of a shotgun? I legitimately do not understand the desire of others to destroy drones. What is the drone doing that you find so reprehensible?

So If I were standing in the street taking a picture/video with a DSLR and 300mm lens I could nearly read your DNA. Do you feel the same aggression for the camera and lens? If so? Why?

Why are people so incredibly upset with the idea that someone MIGHT look at them with a drone?

Click to expand...

I don't think you're understanding my stance here. I don't give a shit about drones in an appropriate setting. Here, let me go with your style of straw-man argument:

"Why are you so against somebody driving their vehicle into your backyard and sitting in the back seat of their van and taking pictures of you and your family?"

Herzog said:

I don't think you're understanding my stance here. I don't give a shit about drones in an appropriate setting. Here, let me go with your style of straw-man argument:
Why are you so against somebody driving their vehicle into your backyard and sitting in the back seat of their van and taking pictures of you and your famT

Click to expand...

So someone flying a drone within shotgun range of you is inappropriate somehow? WHY IS IT INAPPROPRIATE? Can you prove the drone is looking at you? Why are you afraid of someone looking at you? Maybe the pilot is flying in the public airspace over your property to get a better shot of the house next door for real estate purposes. You DO NOT OWN THE AIRSPACE!!!! The American people own the airspace. Do you get the desire to shoot airplanes that fly over your home? Do you want to shoot helicopters that fly over your home? They might be looking at you god forbid!

What is it about drones that has people literally up in arms? Why is the idea that someone MIGHT look at you so reprehensible?

OK...let's meet in the middle. If you can reach the drone with a shovel or rake then clearly that drone is too close. Call the police. A jury will find in your favor but a drone flying within shotgun range of you is preposterous.

spencurai said:

So someone flying a drone within shotgun range of you is inappropriate somehow? WHY IS IT INAPPROPRIATE? Can you prove the drone is looking at you? Why are you afraid of someone looking at you? Maybe the pilot is flying in the public airspace over your property to get a better shot of the house next door for real estate purposes. You DO NOT OWN THE AIRSPACE!!!! The American people own the airspace. Do you get the desire to shoot airplanes that fly over your home? Do you want to shoot helicopters that fly over your home? They might be looking at you god forbid!

What is it about drones that has people literally up in arms? Why is the idea that someone MIGHT look at you so reprehensible?

OK...let's meet in the middle. If you can reach the drone with a shovel or rake then clearly that drone is too close. Call the police. A jury will find in your favor but a drone flying within shotgun range of you is preposterous.

Click to expand...

Birdshot is effective at up to 40ish yards. Do you typically see helicopters and airplanes flying within 40 yards above a residence with suspect motives?

Herzog said:

Birdshot is effective at up to 40ish yards. Do you typically see helicopters and airplanes flying within 40 yards above a residence with suspect motives?

Click to expand...

What suspect motives are we referring to here?

Are you afraid someone is "Casing the joint" before they come rob you? Are you afraid of someone looking at you or your wife or kids playing in the pool. Hate to break it to you but nobody needs to be within birdshot range for that. 2k$ on amazon and you can have it by tomorrow.


I mean someone could be in Idaho looking at your place. My whole point is that it isn't drones that are a threat to your privacy and the desire to shoot down a drone is misguided. 99.999% of the time it is just Janet from Remax trying to sell the barndominium next door.

spencurai said:

So someone flying a drone within shotgun range of you is inappropriate somehow? WHY IS IT INAPPROPRIATE? Can you prove the drone is looking at you? Why are you afraid of someone looking at you? Maybe the pilot is flying in the public airspace over your property to get a better shot of the house next door for real estate purposes. You DO NOT OWN THE AIRSPACE!!!! The American people own the airspace.

Click to expand...

There is an expectation of privacy regarding private property yes, even the space above private property. If you’re flying a drone over someone’s private property you better have a legitimate reason (ie. property owner permission) or a warrant. Your “airspace” argument is asinine. Thinking you can fly a drone wherever you want and for whatever reason, as you seem to be saying, is ridiculous and could be construed as Criminal Trespass.

If a drone is close enough to my home without my permission and I feel threatened or annoyed by it, I’m bringing it down. If I’m found to be in the wrong I’ll pay the restitution.

About a year ago, we had drones checking up and down the streets where I live in Bountiful. Kind of recon casing the neighborhood. Within about a week, there were a few burglaries. Not sure if it's the drones or not but the scenario is certainly plausible. Per neighborhood scuttlebutt, the investigating officer said it's common for "perps" to fly drones looking for open garage doors. The drone then zooms in on the garage content and decides if the garage has anything of value. That's scuttlebutt but again, plausible.

If I see a drone looking in my garage or windows, I'll be a little alarmed, especially when I had a teenage daughter at home.

Also can’t operate over people unless they’re involved which is widely violated. So if you are operating over my backyard that I’m standing in with my shotgun… you’re also breaking the law

Can list more laws but you get the point

§107.39 Operation over human beings.​

No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft over a human being unless—

(a) That human being is directly participating in the operation of the small unmanned aircraft;

(b) That human being is located under a covered structure or inside a stationary vehicle that can provide reasonable protection from a falling small unmanned aircraft; or

(c) The operation meets the requirements of at least one of the operational categories specified in subpart D of this part.

§107.105 Limitations on operations over human beings.​

Except as provided in §§107.39(a) and (b) and 107.145, a remote pilot in command may conduct operations over human beings only in accordance with the following, as applicable: §107.110 for Category 1 operations; §§107.115 and 107.120 for Category 2 operations; §§107.125 and 107.130 for Category 3 operations; or §107.140 for Category 4 operations.

§107.110 Category 1 operations.​

To conduct Category 1 operations—

(a) A remote pilot in command must use a small unmanned aircraft that—

(1) Weighs 0.55 pounds or less on takeoff and throughout the duration of each operation under Category 1, including everything that is on board or otherwise attached to the aircraft; and

(2) Does not contain any exposed rotating parts that would lacerate human skin upon impact with a human being.

(b) No remote pilot in command may operate a small unmanned aircraft in sustained flight over open-air assemblies of human beings unless the operation meets the requirements of either §89.110 or §89.115(a) of this chapter.

[Amdt. No. 107–8, 86 FR 4382, Jan. 15, 2021, as amended by 86 FR 62473, Nov. 10, 2021]

§107.115 Category 2 operations: Operating requirements.​

To conduct Category 2 operations—

(a) A remote pilot in command must use a small unmanned aircraft that—

(1) Is eligible for Category 2 operations pursuant to §107.120(a);

(2) Is listed on an FAA-accepted declaration of compliance as eligible for Category 2 operations in accordance with §107.160; and

(3) Is labeled as eligible to conduct Category 2 operations in accordance with §107.120(b)(1).

(b) No remote pilot in command may operate a small unmanned aircraft in sustained flight over open-air assemblies of human beings unless the operation meets the requirements of either §89.110 or §89.115(a) of this chapter.

I'll lump this in with just general photography as I see both of them as a problem. When I'm out riding my bike with my daughter and I see people taking several pictures of us as we go along, I think that's wrong. Yes I know it's legal to take photos in public, but when minors are involved it should require permission from the parents. Taking pictures of landscapes where people are just secondary dots in the photos is one thing, but direct pictures of individuals is another level of intrusion entirely. There is no reason to take someone's picture unless they ask you for it. Same goes for drones hovering/surveying over my home. Just because something is legal doesn't make it right.

I’m also a total square that doesn’t love people flying around/recording my family or property with drones/cameras. I know the idea of privacy is a daydream these days but being respectful can still be a thing.


Get off my lawn.

spencurai said:

What suspect motives are we referring to here?

Are you afraid someone is "Casing the joint" before they come rob you? Are you afraid of someone looking at you or your wife or kids playing in the pool. Hate to break it to you but nobody needs to be within birdshot range for that. 2k$ on amazon and you can have it by tomorrow.

I mean someone could be in Idaho looking at your place. My whole point is that it isn't drones that are a threat to your privacy and the desire to shoot down a drone is misguided. 99.999% of the time it is just Janet from Remax trying to sell the barndominium next door.

Click to expand...

This premise here is silly. That's like saying someone with a knife pointed at you doesn't mean they intend to harm you because a $2k rifle can kill you from 1K yards. Obviously there are times a drone can fly around my neighborhood with zero nefarious intent, but if they are hovering above my backyard at window level, I don't really care about their intent, I'm justified to a reasonable level to infer they are not surveying my neighbors house.

spencurai said:

So what things in the outdoors don't bother you or is it just the fact that someone is flying a drone? Do outboard motors bother you? Do motorcycle motors bother you? Do vehicle motors bother you? Do helicopters and airplanes flying over bother you? What is it about drones that has caused you to be so aggressive in your response? I am 6'4" and +300lbs so people tend to shut the **** up when they approach me with aggression so I am genuinely trying to learn what triggers people so much. A drone sounds like a swarm of bees, not a two stroke 125cc at 8000rpm.

A part of me has to empathize with the tree huggers that hate all motorized things in the outdoors. I get it. People want peace and quiet but where do you personally draw the line because it appears that the presence of a drone is a step too far.

Click to expand...

Every time I have been in this situation it is in places that motorized recreation is not allowed, thus the "long hike in" and it weeds out ski boat, SXS, bought buggies (no ethics) jerks. In these places I have an expectation of a quite, serene, peaceful experience, and dare I say a semi private experience. Drones buzzing around filming everything in sight while some self important a hole narrates every cast is super annoying. Being a big guy certainly would keep people from telling you how they feel about it, but they probably still feel that way about it.

I love drone footage of races, the ocean in storms and loads of other times too. Drone operators don't have to get upset when people don't like the people that "abuse" it. I think there should be ethics to it, it's no different than your personal bubble. If you were at a restaurant and a guy three tables away is taking pics of your kids would you feel the same way? That is how many people feel about drones really close to their homes. If drones didn't have cameras on them, less people would care.

I'm being surveilled by everything every time I have my phone with me, use a computer, make a purchase, take a shit etc. I look at a drone flying over my house like I look at a car parked in front of my house for 4 days. It's annoying, but I don't own the road and I don't own the air. I'm not going to shoot their car if it's within 40 yards. This type of paranoia certainly feels like only a couple steps from shooting up some place or ramming it with a killdozer lol. Besides, like Spence said, if someone really wants a picture of your place, that technology exists in many forms that you would never even know about. Has this theoretical violation of personal space ever actually happened to anyone?

Same with in nature. I don't think physically confronting someone and threating their harm is a good approach to someone that is simply annoying your peace and quiet. I think that approach comes from people that haven't been punched in the face very much lol. The motorized recreating argument was one I was going to make, as that position sounds exactly the same as the position of environmentalist that want the land to themselves, and believe they're more entitled to their form of recreating and enjoyment of an area than you are. If I was REALLY that annoyed by someone disrupting my solitude by flying a drone to get their content, I would just go set my chair right next to them and go about enjoying my day. Skip some rocks. Play some country music or Dave Matthews or something similarly wholly intolerable.

I will also say that I do think these laws will continue to be clarified. I think there is a right for a drone to fly over your house, but where does that right end? 20 feet? 40 feet? Maybe if you can hit it with a slingshot it's fair game? I'd agree that if a drown is right outside your window filming into your house, then you should be able to take that down.

Isn't their technology out there that can use some sort of EM pulse or radio frequency to down drones?

Lastly, the right to bear drones just feels like something the 2A folks should be onboard with. When you guys assemble your militia to overthrow the government because they are forcing you to tolerate too many people you don't like, you're going to need an airforce to deploy. I think banking on winning a modern war with birdshot and rakes is probably not sound military strategy. Maybe Russia will send reinforcements? Might be better off with the rake.

Cody said:

Lastly, the right to bear drones just feels like something the 2A folks should be onboard with. When you guys assemble your militia to overthrow the government because they are forcing you to tolerate too many people you don't like, you're going to need an airforce to deploy.

Click to expand...

I find this comment pretty entertaining Cody. It's the "tolerant" people who are always telling the government to come take my guns because they are scared that a dude like me with no criminal record other than an underage consumption ticket will harm them.
You also don't need and air force to deal with a tyrannical a local sheriff like Brian Dennehy in First Blood. Just a big knife and an M60