ChestonScout
opinions are like Jeeps..
- Location
- Clinton, Ut
my wheelbase is actually only 3" longer than it was stock!
As far as Im reading.....Im good!
As far as Im reading.....Im good!
2010 rules
- Thread starter Craig S
- Start date
Craig S
Commando
- Location
- Delta, Utah
Yes, yes, yes. Judges are hard to find. I do a class every year before the event to help the Judges. Most of the time the competitors know the rules better than the Judges.
ChestonScout
opinions are like Jeeps..
- Location
- Clinton, Ut
maveric
Crawler Collecter
- Location
- In The Middle Of No-Where
I plan on running it. But I was thinking I could run the stock class as well.
It might be better to just run one class anyway... I'd be upset cuz the truck wouldn't climb what I think it should...although I just did it in the buggy.
rock4fun
Active Member
- Location
- springville ut
I want to put this out on the table just to see what everyone thinks. Do you think that if a competitor and his rig have ever driven in a pro comp that they should have to run unlimited or not? IMO I don't think it is fair that the full on pro guys can come out and compete with the little guys. I think if they are pro and have a pro buggy there they should have to compete in unlimited. And give the people with the less expensive backyard built rigs a fighting chance to go out and have fun with alike rigs.Ok now lets have the feed back.
Everybody wants to win, unfortunately there is only one winner. Go practice. Alot of times the (full on pro guys) arent any better than you. ENTER THE CLASS YOUR RIG BELONGS IN and GET IT. I agree that all tube framed buggies should fit into the unlimited class. I want to compete against the best because that makes me a better driver.
rock4fun
Active Member
- Location
- springville ut
I agree that pros may not always be able to out drive you but they can almost always be able to out build you. you cant tell me I can take my buggy that I have about $4000 into with stock drive train old motor and welded diffs 3 link in rear and leafs up front and be competitive against a 10-20,000 or more buggy no mater how much driving skill I have.I guess what I am trying to say is that the pros and the full on tube frame guys should for one weekend once a year let the po boys bring the rigs they built out of there old daily driver or old high school rig [unless they bring and drive a equal rig] and let us compete at our level. IMO this is what killed of the old ways of competitive rock crawling the guys with money took over and the ones without stopped competing. I love to see the full on pro buggys and enjoy going out with them on trail rides and such but let us have this one weekend once a year to have fun and compete against built alike rigs.
there will always be a better rig than yours. For example, someone shows up in a rig just like yours but has ARBs, if used right , he has an advantage on you in a tight competition coarse and he has only spent $1500 more than you. Learn your rig, learn what it takes to get it to the top and drive it that way. If you think your going to show up at a comp with stock parts and be competitve, you will be sitting in the parking lot broke. Your talking about a comp that is $50 to enter that is for LAND USE that is pretty much for FUN. COMPITITION IS FUN
greenjeep
Cause it's green, duh!
- Location
- Moab Local!
I understand and initially agreed, but then I think of some like Todd and Linda Adams. It wouldn't be fair to force them to compete in Unlimited with Linda's red Jeep. With any of the classes, there isn't a money limit on the rig; a Daily Driven Rubicon on 35s will be in the same class as a custom frame off TJ with ProRock 60s, 4 speed Atlas and a 6.1 Hemi on 37" stickies. Is that fair? I don't know.
Would a point penalty for pro drivers be fair, maybe.
I definitely think a tube frame anything should be Unlimited no questions.
rock4fun
Active Member
- Location
- springville ut
I agree with both of you and like I said I just wanted to put it out there and see what people had to say and give my two cents in. This is a topic that has come up a few times sense last year and was just wondering what every buddy else thought. I have competed at the first and second old school rock crawls and have went both ways. The first year did really good and went head to head with Steve Crabtree and wound up taking 3rd. Last year I sucked broke a 3rd member, clutch, and a drive line and finished 3rd from last still had a good time and I am sure I will be there again for 2010
maveric
Crawler Collecter
- Location
- In The Middle Of No-Where
If the money invested in a rig is going to dictate a class, then a Rubicon on 35's should be in the same class as a full-on tube buggy, since they both have $15-30,000 invested.
On the flip side, I don't feel that just because I have competed in WeRock, means that I should have to run with the unlimited's. However, If somebody ran a series in the unlimited class, and are using the same vehicle for this comp, then they should still run the unlimited class. But if they ran the stock mod class in a mostly stock vehicle (I believe almost the same rules and regulations apply as here), then making them run the unlimited class would be unfair.
I think driver ability has a lot to do with how well a person does. A good driver can take a mostly stock rig (mild build with good parts) and can walk all over a shitty driver in a $60,000 rig.
But really, this isn't an issue for me anyway, since I will be in a completely different class
On the flip side, I don't feel that just because I have competed in WeRock, means that I should have to run with the unlimited's. However, If somebody ran a series in the unlimited class, and are using the same vehicle for this comp, then they should still run the unlimited class. But if they ran the stock mod class in a mostly stock vehicle (I believe almost the same rules and regulations apply as here), then making them run the unlimited class would be unfair.
I think driver ability has a lot to do with how well a person does. A good driver can take a mostly stock rig (mild build with good parts) and can walk all over a shitty driver in a $60,000 rig.
But really, this isn't an issue for me anyway, since I will be in a completely different class
TEAM FRED
Registered User
- Location
- Centerville
Believe me I know exactly how you feel. I do this at every pro event I run.
Most competitors will run in the highest class avaliable for the most experience possible. I have ran unlimited every year in a rig that complies with legend rules and will continue to do this in the future!
I believe with Craigs experience it should be up to him and his team to decide which class all vehicles should run in No questions asked.
Tacoma
Et incurventur ante non
- Location
- far enough away
Looking over the street class, saw this:
1.7e: Portal axles are not allowed.
Just to play devil's advocate here in the interest of clarification: you are referring to portals swapped in, correct? And not STOCK portals? I doubt we'll be seeing any Unimogs competing out here... but I know 2 people back east that ran them at Paragon, so I think it's worth asking.
Also, since it came up on my course last year, can the rear-steer penalty be clarified? As it reads right now ( Six (6)penalty points will be assessed if rear steer is used.). It's slightly unclear whether that applies to "using" it as in "using it with effect" or just "using" it as in "engaging the rear steer mechanism for any reason while on the course". I took it to mean the second, and assessed points to the disagreement of the competitor, and I can understand why.
1.7e: Portal axles are not allowed.
Just to play devil's advocate here in the interest of clarification: you are referring to portals swapped in, correct? And not STOCK portals? I doubt we'll be seeing any Unimogs competing out here... but I know 2 people back east that ran them at Paragon, so I think it's worth asking.
Also, since it came up on my course last year, can the rear-steer penalty be clarified? As it reads right now ( Six (6)penalty points will be assessed if rear steer is used.). It's slightly unclear whether that applies to "using" it as in "using it with effect" or just "using" it as in "engaging the rear steer mechanism for any reason while on the course". I took it to mean the second, and assessed points to the disagreement of the competitor, and I can understand why.
BCGPER
Starting Another Thread
- Location
- Sunny Arizona
My two cents:
Did the back tires move? Then he used it (I really don't understand that "engaged" description). Easy way around that rear steer is to just disable it, kind of like the way ARCA required way back when. If you don't disable it, you run the risk of the ding even if you "just" bumped it.
Looking over the street class, saw this:
1.7e: Portal axles are not allowed.
Just to play devil's advocate here in the interest of clarification: you are referring to portals swapped in, correct? And not STOCK portals? I doubt we'll be seeing any Unimogs competing out here... but I know 2 people back east that ran them at Paragon, so I think it's worth asking.
If a Mog shows up at tech inspection, I'd sign it off to compete (there's a challenge for any Mog owner).
Also, since it came up on my course last year, can the rear-steer penalty be clarified? As it reads right now ( Six (6)penalty points will be assessed if rear steer is used.). It's slightly unclear whether that applies to "using" it as in "using it with effect" or just "using" it as in "engaging the rear steer mechanism for any reason while on the course". I took it to mean the second, and assessed points to the disagreement of the competitor, and I can understand why.
Did the back tires move? Then he used it (I really don't understand that "engaged" description). Easy way around that rear steer is to just disable it, kind of like the way ARCA required way back when. If you don't disable it, you run the risk of the ding even if you "just" bumped it.
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Tacoma
Et incurventur ante non
- Location
- far enough away
The argument was that it wasn't used to any effect, or even on the obstacle. I said it was used, period, the rear wheels turned after the vehicle was inside course boundaries and that's that. I realize it splits the hair pretty fine.
BCGPER
Starting Another Thread
- Location
- Sunny Arizona
Pretty cut and dry to me. Sometimes backing up doesn't gain you anything, doesn't mean you didn't do it.
Then again, it is a drivers job to argue every point. But, if he wasn't on the course, then it doesn't count. If it were questionable, like he was lining up at the gate, he should have just talked to you first.
Then again, it is a drivers job to argue every point. But, if he wasn't on the course, then it doesn't count. If it were questionable, like he was lining up at the gate, he should have just talked to you first.
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BonZuki
Southwest Crawlfest
- Location
- Saint George Utah
Clarification on this question!!
I believe there should be something put in place that puts the pro Competitors in the next class up .Maybe not necessarily all the way to unlimited but it is a fact that the Driver not the money in there rigs is the main advantage .A professional driver has been trained through the rigerous competitive nature of the sport of professional Rockcrawling .Don't kid yourself Any of you who disagree should look at last years legend standings there was one proffessional competitor there who absolutely stomped the rest of the field please see the standings below and he did it without a spotter on 90% of the obstacles .How can you Justify a difference of 137 points The way this was done was a combination of spotter points and the fact that he can take most if not all the bonus lines which puts him at a distinct advantageThat same competiter just got 3rd in a We-Rock National Event 2 weeks prior to our Event .I say that anyone of you that wants to compete at that level should go to thier stage and compete with them rather than they come back to our level of a bunch of good ol Boys having fun at a local competition.This may be just my opinion but I speak from experience because i was one of the guys fighting for 2nd place because 1st was way out of reach.One other option is a professional class Just a thought!!:-\
Legend
1. Troy Bailey #005 -90
2. Jared Hansen #006 47
3. Travis Clark #3 79
4. Steve Crabtree #527 83
5. Troy Hatch #14 113
6. Sean Winn #63 117
7. Victor Buness #72 157
8. Mitch Burk # 184
9. David Adams #43 249
10.Rick Hopkins #96 258
11.Stewart Talbot #22 273
12.Josh Tedesco #332 294
13.Justin Lake #98 297
14.Scott Parry #6 334
I believe there should be something put in place that puts the pro Competitors in the next class up .Maybe not necessarily all the way to unlimited but it is a fact that the Driver not the money in there rigs is the main advantage .A professional driver has been trained through the rigerous competitive nature of the sport of professional Rockcrawling .Don't kid yourself Any of you who disagree should look at last years legend standings there was one proffessional competitor there who absolutely stomped the rest of the field please see the standings below and he did it without a spotter on 90% of the obstacles .How can you Justify a difference of 137 points The way this was done was a combination of spotter points and the fact that he can take most if not all the bonus lines which puts him at a distinct advantageThat same competiter just got 3rd in a We-Rock National Event 2 weeks prior to our Event .I say that anyone of you that wants to compete at that level should go to thier stage and compete with them rather than they come back to our level of a bunch of good ol Boys having fun at a local competition.This may be just my opinion but I speak from experience because i was one of the guys fighting for 2nd place because 1st was way out of reach.One other option is a professional class Just a thought!!:-\
Legend
1. Troy Bailey #005 -90
2. Jared Hansen #006 47
3. Travis Clark #3 79
4. Steve Crabtree #527 83
5. Troy Hatch #14 113
6. Sean Winn #63 117
7. Victor Buness #72 157
8. Mitch Burk # 184
9. David Adams #43 249
10.Rick Hopkins #96 258
11.Stewart Talbot #22 273
12.Josh Tedesco #332 294
13.Justin Lake #98 297
14.Scott Parry #6 334
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dustybronco
www.sextonoffroad.com
- Location
- Kamas, UT
The way it looked to me All of the other professionals competed in the Unlimited class. It kinda makes a guy wonder what one was thinking. I know that there were quite a few hints to a certain individual that invited him into the next higher class. Personally I don't know what he was scared of, I rolled my junk three times.
BonZuki
Southwest Crawlfest
- Location
- Saint George Utah
How are you doing Carl!
Its been a while
Its been a while
iamsparticus
Take your Rig to the Edge
- Location
- Ogden,Ut
So I'm confused, i have a 1991 full bodied 4runner, coils from the factory and is still that way, i plan to lengthen the links and make it a three link, and a solid axle swap in front with leafs. So with this set up what class could i run in if i have 35's and no other mods that aren't listed here