Toyota 22re? Not as cool as people say?

[SUPERFLY]

So me and a buddy were talking the other day, we both see a lot of Toyota trucks and we both have several friends with Toyota trucks and we both have noticed a lot of 22res dropping dead lately which got me thinking.
I have an 86 4runner with a hole in the side of the 22re.
I have a 91 pick up with a bad crank bearing.
My best friends 85 runner has a bad head gasket
My best friend's sister's 86 had a bad head gasket that I just replaced
I have a random 22re on an engine stand in my shop with a bad head gasket.
I have had two people this past week call me asking if I know of any good 22res for sale and I had the shop down the street from me call about 3 weeks ago asking for one(I admit that's kinda random but I know a kid that works there)
My cousin just spent well over a grand at a mechanic getting his timing chain/head Redone on his 22re.
I'm sure if I think about it I could think of more but these are seriously within the past couple months.....


My point is that I'm really starting to doubt something I was brought up to believe.... "that the 22res are the most reliable motor ever!" most people my ages are doubting things like religion, government, college, work, etc, I've got my doubts on those things too but this is big for me! I'm starting to really think the 22re is a complete pile! And it shouldnt get all the hype of reliability from over the years. Off the top of my head I can think of more running British cars that friends own than 22res.

This all being said I did daily drive my 4runner with a 22re with 200,000 miles on it for 4 years with out any maintainance more than a regular oil change...


Discuss

 

[iamsparticus]

So lets look at this from a normal car view.
All the models you mentioned more than are 20years old, plus i bet they all have 200,000 plus miles.
I think the problem is not the 22RE, though they do have timing chain and head gasket problems but what Toyota doesn't from that era, I think it is because it has such a good rep that people run them into the ground not thinking about checking things out and doing preventative maintenance

 

[TJDukit]

I honestly think it's related to just how old they are and miles really. Sure you can take really good care of a motor and it will run for a long time but like spaticus said people might have taken the "good name" for granted and just not maintained the vehicles.

Another thing, If all the vehicles you own are one brand and all of them are 20 years old then all of your broken down vehicles are going to be 20 year old vehicles of that brand.

I know plenty of people with 20+ year old chevys that are still driving around on an original 350 with no re-build. But I'm sure there are more of them that aren't still on the original or have at least had a re-build.

Really though if you surround yourself with old vehicles then you will inherit the issues that come with old vehicles.

 

[SAMI]

The 22RE was not designed to push 38" tires sideways with the suspension bound up, while trying to lug 4 super sticky tires up a rock face, with 200k on the clock. I agree that in most cases it's probably age coupled with the current use/abuse/demand of these engines once the truck gets built up. You're talking about motors that have 150k+ on atleast some parts if not most, and you're demanding a lot out of them when on the rocks revving high, dumping the clutch, running sideways and/or upside down. I think that it is a superior motor for exactly the fact that they are lasting 20 years, and being abused in a lot of cases towards their last few years once people build up a truck and rally it.

 

[I Lean]

Look how many early-1980's motors are still kicking around. They were far more reliable than many other options of the day.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I think the 22RE is a great motor, but I think that the 5VZFE will eventually surpass its legend of reliability. We shall see...

 

[SUPERFLY]

Good points! A couple of the above mentioned vehicles are infact 200,000 mile cars but not all. only two of them have ever been off road, and only one of those on a lifted truck. I will get more info on mileage/background and edit. Also think about performance. I laugh in my head everytime someone tells me they have a "built" 22r. All I think is high dollar signs, with little or no performance. The motors have between 87 and 110 hp depending on the year(not bad for an 85 truck but what did compareable trucks have in the 90s? Im not sure but id imagine way more with a ranger or a nisson?) Also I've seen people spend over $5000 at lc engineering just to squeeze out 140-150 hp. Ouch I say

 

[05rubicon]

The 22 was, is, and will still be a good engine, GM Ford and Mopar also produced good engines. I agree with the others in it is how you maintain and take care of it as to how long it lasts. I have a 93 burb with a 454 when I bought it everyone told me the 454's don't last past 100K I have taken it wheeling not moab but close and it has 150K and still going strong, good maintaince is the key.

 

[SUPERFLY]

I agree maintainance is key with all motors and maybe I'm being a bit harsh is calling it a bad motor. With proper maintenance it can last for 20 years... But so can any motor, why does the 22r get such a high horse and the 3.0 3vzfe get such a bad name? Surely it shares same common problems as a 22r but has more power and "if maintained properly" it will last 20 years as well

 

[05rubicon]

Had a 3.0 in a T100 good truck had 200K on it when it died the only problem I had with the motor is it was too costly to get rebuilt or I would still have it. As for the power issues they had it the runners and T100's that was the eggheads at the factory mistake

 

[SAMI]

It's easily arguable that the 3vzfe is a high maintenance motor when compared to the 22re. At the time of release of the 3.0 (in hindsight) not a hole lot of 'pros' come with the 3.0 over the 22re, but have several 'cons' that don't seem to be worth the headache. Yes, you can overheat any motor; but the 3.0, IIRC, had a series of issues involving the coolant hoses straight out of the factory. So now you have 100,000's of units being driven until the operators notice something is wrong.. Which is usually far too late for a motor overheated enough to cause a blown head gasket and warped head. So, 15 years late you have X amount of 3vzfe equipped 4runner cruising around that don't run tip-top shape because majority have had work done early on..

.. It makes sense in my head. The 3vzfe isn't that bad of a motor, I think it's achilles heal was the bad coolant hoses, thus the premature death and widespread hatred for the motor.. So, Toyota stepped up their game with the 5VZFE.

The 3.0 in our families' '95 4runner took a dump only because my sister and BIL were not checking the oil.. Lost the motor. Dealer replaced with a fresh 3.0, and it was peppy as most 3.4's I've driven. That motor is still going strong about 4-5 years later, as they learned their lesson about regular maintenance; I hope.. Perhaps with the hindsight of 15 years later, the replacement 3.0 will last longer; knowing what we know now about that motor.. ?

 

[Kiel]

Maybe the toyota bubble has burst

 

[SUPERFLY]

On another end, a motor deserving of it's good reputation is the f and 2f motors how many of those are still running great in cruisers? They are sometimes twice as old as the 22re

 

[SAMI]

The dude who picked up my cruiser drove it to Washington state... 1974, original motor.

 

[SUPERFLY]

What I'm saying is that people treat the 22r like People also treat the f motor. In my opinion the f motor at times have 50 years under their belt and deserves that sort of respect. I don't see 22rs lasting that long. And I don't think they deserve any more hype than any other motor

 

[iamsparticus]

I agree with what has been said but as far as the 3.0vzfe's go i love mine and i know several others that love theirs too including my fatherinlaw who has run the crap out of it. I think the 3.0 got a bad rap so people just stopped using them, i have not been able to find anyone on this forum or yota tech that has kept the 3.0 and built a rig with it.
Im sure someone has i just havent found it. It's a great engine and the new headgaskets they sell fix the problem of the head blowing easy. The 3.4 only has about 40 more horses and 45 more lbs of torque not worth the swap. The 22RE on the other hand is a great motor just not a firebreather and i think people want it to be sometimes. Toyota has made some great engines especially when they went to EFI

 

[pELYgroso]

I think that the great thing about the 22re is that most of the factory parts last the whole 200k miles before needing replacement (in many cases) I have a '90 Chevy with only 170k on it that's going strong, but in the last 60k miles I've done a fuel pump, alternator, water pump, distributor, headlight electrical, door panels falling apart, window motors, this, that, and the other. The engine itself is going strong, but all of the stuff attached to it has now been replaced. On a 22re, most of the stuff that wears out in 100-160k in most vehicles lasts for 200k. (at least in my experience) I'm sure my 350 TBI Chevy will still be running strong at 200k, but it's cost me a lot of $$ to keep it properly maintained and running. W/ a 22re, throw an oil change at it every 3k and you're pretty much good to go for 200k.

I don't think it's necessarily the longevity that makes it a great engine, but the lack of minor parts going bad in its lifetime that makes it a reliable motor for 200k+ miles. Should we replace certain parts before they go ka-poot? Of course, but if you don't, they tend to last a long time.

my .02

 

[Rot Box]

There are a lot of blown up R series motors out there for one reason or another and I think for the most part they die from neglect and abuse. Its always been funny to me how many of them get new head gasket when its really a timing guide failure I feel that with proper maintenance and care (and timing guide upgrades/replacement on 85-95's) they will outlast most of the "other" 4cylinder motors offered in other vehicles of their time.

That said if I wanted to try and get an R series past 500k miles without tearing it down I would pick the 20R hands down. Dual row chain, steel rockers etc. I'm going to get mine there one day I think I'm half way there and running as good as ever

 

[lewis]

The only 22re I had smoked when going up steep inclines which I heard was a valve problem. I sold it 115k and recently found it again with 250k on it and the owner never did anything to fix the problem. Still going strong.

 

[4Runner]

i have a 94 runner with the 3.0, 5 speed and i have 33 swampers and 2.5 lift and mine still has just about the same power it did before all that. granted i only have 143,000, but its still got just as much as it did before. i think the reason why people give the 22re a good name as they are VERY easy to work on and cheap to maintain. now when you have the 3.0 their is alot more their in the same amount of space and not to be rude, some people are just to lazy to keep with the 3.0's head gaskit problem and what ever problem it also has. because of the lack of work space.