A Little Rant on Today's Generation of Kids and Their (lack of) Work Ethic

[zmotorsports]

Hard work and putting things off until you can pay for them is the answer.

Agreed. When I want something bad enough it just motivates me more to work harder and save more, then it's sweeter in the end and more enjoyable. I think we appreciate things more when we know how hard we worked and sacrificed to acquire. Signing on the dotted line for something, then figuring out how to pay for it is too easy these days and doesn't require the same effort. Granted large purchases like a home I feel are the exception, but those are generally appreciating assets and even then I'm a fan of larger deposits, shorter terms and paying off early.

Having most everything digital doesn't help matters these days either as I feel it disconnects people from their money and they don't have a relationship with it. Granted I think this is by design by all credit card companies as there have been studies done to show the lack of emotion when using a credit card vs. cash. I know I'm old school, but I still use cash for smaller purchases as I physically see the money changing hands and as I'm pulling a few bucks from my wallet it makes me stop and ask, "is this a need or a want and how bad to I really want it?"

 

[Houndoc]

I don’t understand this idea of loyalty to employers personally. The last job I left a little over a year ago I gave them one day notice because I had a big fat commission check waiting for that quarter and I felt like if I gave them anything more that was just giving them opportunity to get out of paying me.

They asked if I would still stay in contact to help transition and we basically negotiated them to pay me for another month to answer my phone while I started working at the new place.

I don’t know I guess I’m just say quality people cost a lot of money. And in today’s world when it’s $800 to rent a bedroom in somebody else’s house and $80 to fill up your tank with gas it’s going to take more than a basic minimum livable wage to find those quality people.

Loyalty is of course earned, but as others have said those who quit without notice or go quickly through jobs don't often make it to the hiring stage with us.

And it is far better as an employer to do what is needed to keep quality staff instead of having them leave for greener pastures and hope you can find a decent replacement.

I also find the idea of "work ethic" difficult. I know some fellow veterinarians who work 12 hour days, 5-6 days a week, seldom take vacation etc. One I interviewed for a position actually told me when I asked what she likes to do when away from work "I don't remember."

And my now retired partner in the hospital was giving me a hard time about the fact that I built my work schedule around my kids' high school sports events (missed only a handful of soccer games, track or cross country meets, road games included) stating "he didn't do that when his kids where young." But then he paused, looked thoughtful and added "maybe that is why some of them turned out the way they did".

Am I a worse person because I work 3-4 days per week, and take multiple long vacations per year? I don't think so.

I hope the younger generations realize that your value as a person or even as an employee is not based on working long hours or lots of overtime. It is perfectly valid to want to have a quality of life away from the job.

 

[comingdown]

My last job before i became self employed started me off at $19 and I have done that trade my entire life, knew how to do every aspect inside and out. Okay, great. Fast forward a few years, and they are starting temps with zero experience at $19. And the worst is that the employees who had been there for years, hard working and loyal were not making $19. I don’t understand why that company in particular was so willing to pay brand new people with unknown work habits but not willing to take care of their loyal hard working employees. But the reality is there’s so many fast food places that requires zero physical labor and possibly some mental stress that start out paying decent money. I’m 38. I bought my first house making $11/hr for 88k. Those days are gone for lots of young kids now. The way rents and housing prices have skyrocketed while wages have slowly crawled along is scary for kids. Affordable housing is gone. They are building townhomes by my house, which used to be entry level housing and they are selling for 540k. With current interest rates even putting 5% down your payment is 4800/ month. I don’t know who can afford that. I doubt I could. It’s insane.

 

[Herzog]

With current interest rates even putting 5% down your payment is 4800/ month. I don’t know who can afford that. I doubt I could. It’s insane.

It absolutely is insane. And affordable housing is a joke/scam. I've known way too many people to rent places like that they can actually afford and they somehow get gov kickbacks. Absolute scam and keeps the prices high. It's one of those scenarios where if you don't support "affordable housing" you MUST hate poor people. What a joke.

My current plan is to acquire land for my kids to build on some day, but not tell them they can. I want them to succeed as best they can and then have a place to settle. It's the opposite thinking of the general boomer stereotype and it's the only way forward that I can see. But with the way birth rates have been in the last few decades, I think we might see a rise in available housing in the next 10 years, unless all the military aged men coming in from various countries changes that.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

My current plan is to acquire land for my kids to build on some day, but not tell them they can. I want them to succeed as best they can and then have a place to settle. It's the opposite thinking of the general boomer stereotype and it's the only way forward that I can see. But with the way birth rates have been in the last few decades, I think we might see a rise in available housing in the next 10 years, unless all the military aged men coming in from various countries changes that.

Speaking of

Parents buying homes for their adult children

There's a surprising growing trend in real estate. Parents and older adults are buying homes for their adult children.

www.ksl.com

 

[Herzog]

Speaking of

Parents buying homes for their adult children

There's a surprising growing trend in real estate. Parents and older adults are buying homes for their adult children.

www.ksl.com

Sounds ridiculous but it make sense. You lose the usury and if the kids really are paying the parents back then I see it as a solid plan. The problem I can see arising though - would you really evict your kid if they stopped paying? Some would, most wouldn't... You'd have to raise some extremely responsible kids (which according to this thread isn't happening)

 

[N-Smooth]

We’re hoping to be in a position to buy a townhome or something for my kids to live in while they’re doing college or starting families or whatever. There will be no free passes but we could certainly help with the payments.

My siblings have discussed going in on a couple places as well and co-mingling the (13) cousins but I’m sure there would be challenges with more people involved and the age disparity in our kids.

 

[comingdown]

Yeah, we have enough units for all of our kids to live somewhere if need be. And like my parents, I’m more than happy to help my kids out as long as they are helping themselves out, if need be. Ideally they become successful and buy their own stuff.

 

[comingdown]

I just wonder how many times coco had to stop typing and chase e teenagers off his lawn. 😂

 

[glockman]

It absolutely is insane. And affordable housing is a joke/scam. I've known way too many people to rent places like that they can actually afford and they somehow get gov kickbacks. Absolute scam and keeps the prices high. It's one of those scenarios where if you don't support "affordable housing" you MUST hate poor people. What a joke.

My current plan is to acquire land for my kids to build on some day, but not tell them they can. I want them to succeed as best they can and then have a place to settle. It's the opposite thinking of the general boomer stereotype and it's the only way forward that I can see. But with the way birth rates have been in the last few decades, I think we might see a rise in available housing in the next 10 years, unless all the military aged men coming in from various countries changes that.

There was a Freakonimics podcast about housing i listened to last year. One of the top 5 reasons for the housing shortage is single person housing. With less and less of the population cohabitating for long periods, you now have to have twice as many homes. I had never considered that but it makes sense.

 

[Herzog]

There was a Freakonimics podcast about housing i listened to last year. One of the top 5 reasons for the housing shortage is single person housing. With less and less of the population cohabitating for long periods, you now have to have twice as many homes. I had never considered that but it makes sense.

My brother in law lives in a huge 4 bedroom home near Denver all by himself. Many such cases...?

 

[Pike2350]

My brother is the same. He divorced a few years ago and kept the house.

I have bought 2 rental duplexes, so each of my daughters can have 1 when I die. I would let each of them live in one for a lower then market rent to help them out....as everyone else has said, as long as they are doing something to help themselves out as well.

 

[Spork]

My last job before i became self employed started me off at $19 and I have done that trade my entire life, knew how to do every aspect inside and out. Okay, great. Fast forward a few years, and they are starting temps with zero experience at $19. And the worst is that the employees who had been there for years, hard working and loyal were not making $19. I don’t understand why that company in particular was so willing to pay brand new people with unknown work habits but not willing to take care of their loyal hard working employees. But the reality is there’s so many fast food places that requires zero physical labor and possibly some mental stress that start out paying decent money. I’m 38. I bought my first house making $11/hr for 88k. Those days are gone for lots of young kids now. The way rents and housing prices have skyrocketed while wages have slowly crawled along is scary for kids. Affordable housing is gone. They are building townhomes by my house, which used to be entry level housing and they are selling for 540k. With current interest rates even putting 5% down your payment is 4800/ month. I don’t know who can afford that. I doubt I could. It’s insane.

I struggle with this. Way back in the dark ages when I started working we found a salary/wage spreadsheet out on a share. The guy that had been there forever seemed to be making less than the new hires. Which gets me to I've been working for the last 35 years are the new guys making more than I am? I've moved around, changed companies, which makes me think that I would be the new guy making more $ than the old guys but you never know. At what point do you tell your employer to pay or you walk?

 

[Stephen]

I struggle with this. Way back in the dark ages when I started working we found a salary/wage spreadsheet out on a share. The guy that had been there forever seemed to be making less than the new hires. Which gets me to I've been working for the last 35 years are the new guys making more than I am? I've moved around, changed companies, which makes me think that I would be the new guy making more $ than the old guys but you never know. At what point do you tell your employer to pay or you walk?

At my last job at the U I got a friend of mine hired in the same position and he told me his salary was a solid $6k more than the rest of us, even though he had less experience in the field. This was all due to changes in the salary matrix at the U where when I got hired the range was X, but when he got hired, the range was Y so he got more. Totals BS, but that's .gov for you.
So me and the two other guys on the team went to our boss and said, "Hey, pay us the same or we're out." It worked. Collective bargaining in action.

 

[jeeper]

I bought my first house making $11/hr for 88k. Those days are gone for lots of young kids now. Affordable housing is gone. They are building townhomes by my house, which used to be entry level housing and they are selling for 540k.

I don't know a ton about housing.. and I'm pretty firm in the 'nobody cares, work harder' camp.. so my opinions may be skewed...
but my grandparents bought a home, waaaaay too small in todays standards and raised 6 kids in it. They died a few years back, and it had the same cabinets, basic counter tops, and fixtures as it did when they bought it. My wife's grandparents bought an even smaller house, raised 9 kids, and it still has the original flooring even. For my parents generation, starter homes (70's-80's) were 1,800 sq ft ramblers (most without finished basements) or 1800 sf split entry style homes. Basic materials, basic exteriors. Shared bathrooms for adults and kids. Some with garages, most without.
My first home was a 800 sq ft run down place. My second home was in the ghetto, but larger.

Todays 'entry level homes' come with quartz counter tops, 15' ceilings, 2-4 baths, 3-5 beds, 2 car garage, (hoa's with pools, club houses, etc). They are not the same as previous generations.

My parents and grandparents drove cars that were older and basic. Today we have to have 40's on our $70,000 daily driver truck. Our wives have to have huge suv's with full leather and entertainments systems. Our phones have to be the latest and greatest.

While it may in fact be more expensive to live.. I don't think the divide is as big as we think. It's our appetite that has increased.

 

[Herzog]

I don't know a ton about housing.. and I'm pretty firm in the 'nobody cares, work harder' camp.. so my opinions may be skewed...
but my grandparents bought a home, waaaaay too small in todays standards and raised 6 kids in it. They died a few years back, and it had the same cabinets, basic counter tops, and fixtures as it did when they bought it. My wife's grandparents bought an even smaller house, raised 9 kids, and it still has the original flooring even. For my parents generation, starter homes (70's-80's) were 1,800 sq ft ramblers (most without finished basements) or 1800 sf split entry style homes. Basic materials, basic exteriors. Shared bathrooms for adults and kids. Some with garages, most without.
My first home was a 800 sq ft run down place. My second home was in the ghetto, but larger.

Todays 'entry level homes' come with quartz counter tops, 15' ceilings, 2-4 baths, 3-5 beds, 2 car garage, (hoa's with pools, club houses, etc). They are not the same as previous generations.

My parents and grandparents drove cars that were older and basic. Today we have to have 40's on our $70,000 daily driver truck. Our wives have to have huge suv's with full leather and entertainments systems. Our phones have to be the latest and greatest.

While it may in fact be more expensive to live.. I don't think the divide is as big as we think. It's our appetite that has increased.

I always tell my son that an old small home on spacious property is better than a large home on no property. I think he gets it now.

If I recall correctly, you inspected the home I bought in Francis. That was a good home, we were there for about 6 years. I don't need much more than that. I think it was 1100 sqft, split entry... If I could pick that house up and put it on more property I would have, despite the previous owners ghetto work on it that I had to fix over the years

 

[Cody]

Todays 'entry level homes' come with quartz counter tops, 15' ceilings, 2-4 baths, 3-5 beds, 2 car garage, (hoa's with pools, club houses, etc). They are not the same as previous generations.

My parents and grandparents drove cars that were older and basic. Today we have to have 40's on our $70,000 daily driver truck. Our wives have to have huge suv's with full leather and entertainments systems. Our phones have to be the latest and greatest.

While it may in fact be more expensive to live.. I don't think the divide is as big as we think. It's our appetite that has increased.

It's the ever raising bar of what people consider the threshold to be a part of the "leisure class". Pecuniary emulation.

It's obviously complex, but we as parents are partly (mostly?) to blame. Why wouldn't we teach our kids to strive for more than they had/have? The problem is we instill in our kids the idea that they should always work hard and try to better their position (WANT more), but we do a poor job of instilling within our kids that idea that sometimes what you have is enough. Society triples down on the messaging too, which is just the biproduct of consumerism and a free market.

 

[ID Bronco]

The single happiest person I have ever known lived in a run down home, junker cars, ect. I paid him decent but his wife didn't work. They valued their relationships and kindness over possessions. Again, he was happy which made it tough to not be happy when you were with him. Just my .02

 

[comingdown]

I don't know a ton about housing.. and I'm pretty firm in the 'nobody cares, work harder' camp.. so my opinions may be skewed...
but my grandparents bought a home, waaaaay too small in todays standards and raised 6 kids in it. They died a few years back, and it had the same cabinets, basic counter tops, and fixtures as it did when they bought it. My wife's grandparents bought an even smaller house, raised 9 kids, and it still has the original flooring even. For my parents generation, starter homes (70's-80's) were 1,800 sq ft ramblers (most without finished basements) or 1800 sf split entry style homes. Basic materials, basic exteriors. Shared bathrooms for adults and kids. Some with garages, most without.
My first home was a 800 sq ft run down place. My second home was in the ghetto, but larger.

Todays 'entry level homes' come with quartz counter tops, 15' ceilings, 2-4 baths, 3-5 beds, 2 car garage, (hoa's with pools, club houses, etc). They are not the same as previous generations.

My parents and grandparents drove cars that were older and basic. Today we have to have 40's on our $70,000 daily driver truck. Our wives have to have huge suv's with full leather and entertainments systems. Our phones have to be the latest and greatest.

While it may in fact be more expensive to live.. I don't think the divide is as big as we think. It's our appetite that has increased.

Right, there’s definitely some truth to people wanting to skip the fixer upper and go right to their dream house. That is definitely a problem. But to me, that house I bought for 88k I couldn’t buy today for 350k. Wages are higher than 2013, but not really keeping the same pace as home prices. I grew up in San Diego and knew if I wanted to ever buy a house it had to be elsewhere. I simply couldn’t afford to buy anything there. Still can’t and wouldn’t want to. I’m the youngest of nine kids and was raised in a 3 bed 1.5 bath house until I was about 4, and my parents remodeled our house. My grandparents bought houses for cheap, it was unfinished and my grandpa built his own cabinets, did all his own work as he could afford it. He also invested all his money in stocks, bonds and real estate and lived like a pauper. Like unwilling to fix his root filled plumbing because he couldn’t imagine spending the money, and he was at this time a multi-multi millionaire. Like 200 houses and units in San Diego wealthy. So money was no issue, it was a depression mentality that was holding him back. To me, what’s the point of being that wealthy if you can’t even enjoy indoor plumbing? BTW me and my dad eventually tore everything apart and fixed everything and remodeled the bathroom for my grandma in her wheelchair. He could t believe how nice it was once we were finished and gave me and my dad a blank check literally and told us to fill in whatever we wanted. My dad has been successful as a union worker and a small business owner, and he’s now retired. My mom wanted a motor home to travel and they bought one, paid cash. And my dad hates it be a it cost him money. He can’t just enjoy time with his wife and retirement because he’s still worried about money and he doesn’t have to. So while there’s plenty to learn from our pst generations, they could learn some from our generation as well. I like the saying if you can’t be happy without money you won’t be happy with it. But it does kill me when people are buying a house and instantly gutting it and throwing thousands into a remodel instead of just enjoying home ownership and slowly improving stuff as you go. That’s what I do. Just keep a never ending pile of a couple thousand half finished projects going. 😂

 

[ID Bronco]

Loyalty is of course earned, but as others have said those who quit without notice or go quickly through jobs don't often make it to the hiring stage with us.

And it is far better as an employer to do what is needed to keep quality staff instead of having them leave for greener pastures and hope you can find a decent replacement.

I also find the idea of "work ethic" difficult. I know some fellow veterinarians who work 12 hour days, 5-6 days a week, seldom take vacation etc. One I interviewed for a position actually told me when I asked what she likes to do when away from work "I don't remember."

And my now retired partner in the hospital was giving me a hard time about the fact that I built my work schedule around my kids' high school sports events (missed only a handful of soccer games, track or cross country meets, road games included) stating "he didn't do that when his kids where young." But then he paused, looked thoughtful and added "maybe that is why some of them turned out the way they did".

Am I a worse person because I work 3-4 days per week, and take multiple long vacations per year? I don't think so.

I hope the younger generations realize that your value as a person or even as an employee is not based on working long hours or lots of overtime. It is perfectly valid to want to have a quality of life away from the job.

I liked this comment a while ago and am now taking time to add to it. I agree with living now, not waiting until some imaginary "later" that may not happen.......but........I think one needs to build up to the flexibility. Young, newly married or fresh out of high school kids should be working their tails off so they can live like Houndoc a little later. Your kids seem to be on the track to success, but I bet you worked hard getting to where you are and they will too.