General Tech Air Compressor vs. CO2 Tank.....
- Thread starter zgfiredude
- Start date
Samesies. I've had mine for probably 10 years and it always works. Is it fast? NOPE! but it gets the job done when I need it to. I also like that I can throw it in whatever vehicle I want for a weekend, unlike a mounted one.
Chicken Corners
Active Member
- Location
- Shakedown St. NV./ Saratoga Springs
I carry both. I ran out of CO2 earlier this year. I had not used my Viair compressor in 5 or 6 years. I hope I never have to again. Life is to short for a 12v air compressor.
- Location
- West Bountiful, UT
I have messed around with 12v compressors a fair bit. Real short version of my take, a 12v compressor is a better fit for my needs than a C02 tank or a belt driven system that deletes AC. I have been running the ARB dual for almost as long as it has been available. And if I had to replace it, I'd have to decide between it and the Outback Air Extreme Magnum that @notajeep runs.
Worth noting - @notajeeps Outback Air smokes my ARB twin. He fills his 37's faster than I fill my 35's.
Which is why, if I ever need to replace my ARB twin, it's not an automatic to get another one.
And which also illustrates a point I have long been aware of from first hand experience. The published specs on 12v compressors just don't tell the whole truth. Published specs from ARB and Outback Air would put the ARB twin clearly in the lead. But actual on the ground observation in real world use says differently.
I started with the best bang for the buck out there in 12v compressors, the MV50. I was able to score all of mine for between $25 and $49 each (only paid more than $29 for one of the five I have owned). The MV50 is a chicom knockoff of the Viair 400P. An exact knockoff. I own the Viair 400P as well and have verified the parts are interchangeable. I've also verified the tire fill speed of the MV50 is the same as the Viair 400P.
After using a single MV50 and a single Viair 400P for quite awhile, I eventually hard mounted a pair of MV50's.
For the money, this is a great setup. Much faster than a single MV50 or any single Viair I have ever seen. And "reasonably" durable and dependable, "considering" the cost. But, I did wear out both of those compressors (at different times) and replaced them with new MV50s. When the third MV50 crapped the bed, I decided to go with something else rather than keep buying new MV50s every couple of years.
I next hard mounted a Puma. The Puma is a beast. It's faster to fill tires than my ARB twin. But I found it to be an electrical beast I couldn't live with. Twice, I experienced melting 8 gage wire and fuse holders around 40 amp fuses using the Puma in hot weather. Strange thing is that the fuse didn't ever blow. Lucky that neither actually started a fire. I don't blame this on the compressor, I blame it on my wiring, but I admitted defeat after putting all the care I could into the second wiring job and having it melt down again.
That's when the ARB twin became available and I went with it. It has not been totally free of problems. I've had a few times that one of the two compressors went out of service. Cruiseroutfitters and ARB took great care of me each time though and I really don't have any complaints over all.
I still own a couple working MV50s, a Viair 400P, the Puma and of course the ARB twin.
So, end of the day, my take, same as @notajeep.
I have most of the stuff in place I'd need to run the Outback Air (85A continuous duty solenoid, manifold, tank, etc.). Not going to go away from my ARB while it's still kicking. But if I do find myself needing to replace it, I'm not sure whether I'd get another one or try the Outback. Those would be the two I'd be looking at though.
C02 just not suitable for my needs. Can't spare the cargo room, air up my tires so often I'd be frequently dealing with the hassle of refills, don't want to run out of air anywhere, etc. Something like a York would be awesome, but losing my AC is not open for discussion.
- DAA
Worth noting - @notajeeps Outback Air smokes my ARB twin. He fills his 37's faster than I fill my 35's.
Which is why, if I ever need to replace my ARB twin, it's not an automatic to get another one.
And which also illustrates a point I have long been aware of from first hand experience. The published specs on 12v compressors just don't tell the whole truth. Published specs from ARB and Outback Air would put the ARB twin clearly in the lead. But actual on the ground observation in real world use says differently.
I started with the best bang for the buck out there in 12v compressors, the MV50. I was able to score all of mine for between $25 and $49 each (only paid more than $29 for one of the five I have owned). The MV50 is a chicom knockoff of the Viair 400P. An exact knockoff. I own the Viair 400P as well and have verified the parts are interchangeable. I've also verified the tire fill speed of the MV50 is the same as the Viair 400P.
After using a single MV50 and a single Viair 400P for quite awhile, I eventually hard mounted a pair of MV50's.
For the money, this is a great setup. Much faster than a single MV50 or any single Viair I have ever seen. And "reasonably" durable and dependable, "considering" the cost. But, I did wear out both of those compressors (at different times) and replaced them with new MV50s. When the third MV50 crapped the bed, I decided to go with something else rather than keep buying new MV50s every couple of years.
I next hard mounted a Puma. The Puma is a beast. It's faster to fill tires than my ARB twin. But I found it to be an electrical beast I couldn't live with. Twice, I experienced melting 8 gage wire and fuse holders around 40 amp fuses using the Puma in hot weather. Strange thing is that the fuse didn't ever blow. Lucky that neither actually started a fire. I don't blame this on the compressor, I blame it on my wiring, but I admitted defeat after putting all the care I could into the second wiring job and having it melt down again.
That's when the ARB twin became available and I went with it. It has not been totally free of problems. I've had a few times that one of the two compressors went out of service. Cruiseroutfitters and ARB took great care of me each time though and I really don't have any complaints over all.
I still own a couple working MV50s, a Viair 400P, the Puma and of course the ARB twin.
So, end of the day, my take, same as @notajeep.
I have most of the stuff in place I'd need to run the Outback Air (85A continuous duty solenoid, manifold, tank, etc.). Not going to go away from my ARB while it's still kicking. But if I do find myself needing to replace it, I'm not sure whether I'd get another one or try the Outback. Those would be the two I'd be looking at though.
C02 just not suitable for my needs. Can't spare the cargo room, air up my tires so often I'd be frequently dealing with the hassle of refills, don't want to run out of air anywhere, etc. Something like a York would be awesome, but losing my AC is not open for discussion.
- DAA
What's the full-load amp draw of the Outback Air Magnum and the Puma? Based on the publishes specs of the Outback, I'd worry for your 85A solenoid...and I'd assume the Puma amp draw is similar-ish. And either/both would require some serious wire to run--without looking up, I'd guess 4ga, or maybe as small as 6ga would work?
- Location
- West Bountiful, UT
A look at my Puma and no amp draw listed on the plate. A quick google of the Outback specs, and no amp draw listed where I looked either. But the Outback comes with 4 gage wire and Anderson clips.
I think 4 gage would be prudent with the Puma too. The 8 gage I used wasn't enough.
Hadn't thought about that solenoid being weak sauce, but it just might be...
- DAA
I think 4 gage would be prudent with the Puma too. The 8 gage I used wasn't enough.
Hadn't thought about that solenoid being weak sauce, but it just might be...
- DAA
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Back on the CO2 note. Where is the best SLC location to get an owned bottle filled? BEVCO still the go to?
- Location
- Stinkwater
Outback says the minimum for the Magnum is 4ga.
Not gonna lie, I like that Magnum. Which makes me sad, because if their track record holds this Viair is gonna take forever to die.
Tonkaman
Well-Known Member
- Location
- West Jordan
I think @Cody was offering to fill bottles??
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Killer. I'll swing by the Midvale store this afternoon
- Location
- West Haven, UT
I've had compressors for the first 20+ years of Jeeping and now have a couple of 10 lb Powertanks. My son also switched from compressor over to a Powertank system.
In my first three Jeeps I just used a Viair 400P portable compressor in the canvas bag but was running 31" then 33" tires so not too awfully long to fill.
When I first built my JKUR back in 2011 and went to 35" tires I initially installed a WARN Powerplant winch/compressor but I quickly decided I didn't like that setup. When I built my front bumper I sold that so I could sink my new WARN winch down in between the frame rails to allow better air flow and I then installed a full onboard air system using dual Viair 450C and 3-gallon tank along with manifold setup. I had multiple issues with compressors failing due to the engine heat. Common sense told me that heat soak from the engine bay wasn't going to end well for the compressors but according to the internet so many people were doing it I figured I would as well. That was one of the dumbest decisions I made during my build. I absolutely despised that setup, worrying about it each time I pulled up to air up wondering if it was going to work and air up all four tires.
After only 2-years and 3 compressors I removed it and sold it. I then installed a single Viair 450C in the rear above the passenger rear wheelwell. It worked "OK" for a couple of years but was taking too long to fill all four 35" tires so I then splurged and purchased the ARB dual air compressor and mounted it under the passenger's seat. This worked well for a few years and shaved a few minutes off of the fill up time but it was still much slower than I wanted. I still have it under the seat as a backup because it's out of sight and out of the way.
What I didn't like was that I was always the last to fill up when we were at rallies and gatherings with our RV club and always felt like I was holding the group up. For all four 35" tires it was taking me about 15-18 minutes to air up the tires and another couple of minutes for getting hose out and putting back to the tune of about 20 minutes overall from start to finish. I also worried about reliability as I had not had the best luck with compressors. I HATE worrying about reliability and whether or not something is or is not going to function when needed. When we travel with our RV club we seldom run trails that are near the RV park so we tend to drive anywhere from 20-70 miles to the trailhead, air down, Jeep, air up and then run to either another trail or back to the RV park so I wanted something reliable as well as quick and the CO2 system fits that perfectly.
When I went to the 37" tires I knew the air up time would be drawn out even longer so I opted to go with the Powertank setup. Due to my large toolbox I couldn't fit the 15 lb. tank in the rear so I purchased the 10 lb setup plus a spare bottle and mounting bracket. I can get about 4+ complete fill-ups of all 4 tires with one bottle but it wasn't enough for a week long rally so the spare works great. When one bottle is depleted, I swap the regulator over to the second tank and I can go a week plus on two tanks. Some days depending on which trails or how many trails we run I find myself airing up more than once but this is rare.
Now when we pull back to the air up spot even if I'm the tail-gunner and am the last to start filling I am not the last to be ready to hit the pavement. Granted the refilling of the tanks is not ideal but Cody gives a discount for refilling tanks and the Ogden Brewing Co. is just a few miles from my home so refilling is very convenient. Yes you pay for that convenience but it is reasonable.
I also kept the ARB dual air compressor under the seat because you know the saying "two is one and one is none".
The CO2 is so quick and convenient that as long as I can get them refilled at a reasonable cost and relatively convenient I won't go back to a compressor.
Mike
In my first three Jeeps I just used a Viair 400P portable compressor in the canvas bag but was running 31" then 33" tires so not too awfully long to fill.
When I first built my JKUR back in 2011 and went to 35" tires I initially installed a WARN Powerplant winch/compressor but I quickly decided I didn't like that setup. When I built my front bumper I sold that so I could sink my new WARN winch down in between the frame rails to allow better air flow and I then installed a full onboard air system using dual Viair 450C and 3-gallon tank along with manifold setup. I had multiple issues with compressors failing due to the engine heat. Common sense told me that heat soak from the engine bay wasn't going to end well for the compressors but according to the internet so many people were doing it I figured I would as well. That was one of the dumbest decisions I made during my build. I absolutely despised that setup, worrying about it each time I pulled up to air up wondering if it was going to work and air up all four tires.
After only 2-years and 3 compressors I removed it and sold it. I then installed a single Viair 450C in the rear above the passenger rear wheelwell. It worked "OK" for a couple of years but was taking too long to fill all four 35" tires so I then splurged and purchased the ARB dual air compressor and mounted it under the passenger's seat. This worked well for a few years and shaved a few minutes off of the fill up time but it was still much slower than I wanted. I still have it under the seat as a backup because it's out of sight and out of the way.
What I didn't like was that I was always the last to fill up when we were at rallies and gatherings with our RV club and always felt like I was holding the group up. For all four 35" tires it was taking me about 15-18 minutes to air up the tires and another couple of minutes for getting hose out and putting back to the tune of about 20 minutes overall from start to finish. I also worried about reliability as I had not had the best luck with compressors. I HATE worrying about reliability and whether or not something is or is not going to function when needed. When we travel with our RV club we seldom run trails that are near the RV park so we tend to drive anywhere from 20-70 miles to the trailhead, air down, Jeep, air up and then run to either another trail or back to the RV park so I wanted something reliable as well as quick and the CO2 system fits that perfectly.
When I went to the 37" tires I knew the air up time would be drawn out even longer so I opted to go with the Powertank setup. Due to my large toolbox I couldn't fit the 15 lb. tank in the rear so I purchased the 10 lb setup plus a spare bottle and mounting bracket. I can get about 4+ complete fill-ups of all 4 tires with one bottle but it wasn't enough for a week long rally so the spare works great. When one bottle is depleted, I swap the regulator over to the second tank and I can go a week plus on two tanks. Some days depending on which trails or how many trails we run I find myself airing up more than once but this is rare.
Now when we pull back to the air up spot even if I'm the tail-gunner and am the last to start filling I am not the last to be ready to hit the pavement. Granted the refilling of the tanks is not ideal but Cody gives a discount for refilling tanks and the Ogden Brewing Co. is just a few miles from my home so refilling is very convenient. Yes you pay for that convenience but it is reasonable.
I also kept the ARB dual air compressor under the seat because you know the saying "two is one and one is none".
The CO2 is so quick and convenient that as long as I can get them refilled at a reasonable cost and relatively convenient I won't go back to a compressor.
Mike
- Location
- West Haven, UT
Powertank has been a good company to me. I had a gauge fail after a few years of use and the company sent me a new, upgraded unit free of charge. They didn't even want the old one back, they just took my word on the failure. I really like the expansion valve - quality unit.
I second the air-up time with CO2 as it's strong point. Maybe having the compressor and a CO2 bottle is the best of both worlds.
I second the air-up time with CO2 as it's strong point. Maybe having the compressor and a CO2 bottle is the best of both worlds.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
One of the things I do NOT do with my ARB dual compressor is fill the tires to 30-35 psi. I basically just want to get my tires to about 20-25 psi from about 11-13. That may change people's evaluation of my endorsement of the ARB but thought it handy to get out there. I basically just want to get from trail pressure to something more predictable for a shortish highway jaunt. Shortish meaning usually under 10 miles or so. If it's less than a mile or two, I just stay at trail pressure. I don't drive a long ways (at least on purpose) on the highway in my "Jeep".
We just came off the Rubicon a few weeks ago and I filled my tires to travel from Tahoma to my trailer that we left in South Lake Tahoe. That's a windy road and it would have really sucked at trail pressure. I got my 38" Kevlars from 11-12 psi to about 25 psi in less than 5 min and ran up the line to help a couple other folks get their tires filled from trail pressure to whatever they wanted. I ended up filling my four tires and 2 tires on each of the fwd vehicles. I think they had 35" tires on one rig and then 37" tires on the other. They didn't go to street pressure either but I couldn't help being amazed that my compressor was one of the better performers of the group.
We just came off the Rubicon a few weeks ago and I filled my tires to travel from Tahoma to my trailer that we left in South Lake Tahoe. That's a windy road and it would have really sucked at trail pressure. I got my 38" Kevlars from 11-12 psi to about 25 psi in less than 5 min and ran up the line to help a couple other folks get their tires filled from trail pressure to whatever they wanted. I ended up filling my four tires and 2 tires on each of the fwd vehicles. I think they had 35" tires on one rig and then 37" tires on the other. They didn't go to street pressure either but I couldn't help being amazed that my compressor was one of the better performers of the group.
- Location
- West Haven, UT
^^This was a high priority with me as I found I could get to 24~ish PSI with ease but that last several pounds was a bit of a struggle with any of my Viairs and even a struggle for the dual ARB once around 30 or so PSI. As I mentioned earlier many times we are 50-70 miles from our coach and heading back after airing up at 65-70 MPH and I want to be a full street pressure so the Jeep handles perfectly. This is where the CO2 shines in my opinion. Like Marc, when we are around Moab or any trails close to camp and I won't be going over 30-40 MPH or more or more than about 10 miles I won't air up either. My trail pressure is usually around 12 PSI.
Mike
- Location
- Stinkwater
I haven't timed it, but that sounds about right.
I'm going to go the other way though. I'm going to get one of those big boy compressors, a Puma or the Magnum, and build a four-chuck hose. I'm an ADHD-riddled spaz and I would definitely forget to fill an air tank. I'll trust compressor reliability over my own memory.
- Location
- West Haven, UT
That is exactly why there are various choices.
We all have to know our limitations.
Mike.
zgfiredude
Old Fart in Training...
- Location
- Silt, CO
Thanks for all the great perspective! Pros and Cons for both, kinda like do you want Coffee or Tea....
I'm undecided still, leaning towards a compressor primarily due to space/volume of storage concerns. If I do go that route, it will go in the passenger compartment for heat soak reasons, but I think I might try and map out how I'll handle electrical needs at the same time.....want to really try to get things fairly right the first time through on this thing. Wish me luck!!
I'm undecided still, leaning towards a compressor primarily due to space/volume of storage concerns. If I do go that route, it will go in the passenger compartment for heat soak reasons, but I think I might try and map out how I'll handle electrical needs at the same time.....want to really try to get things fairly right the first time through on this thing. Wish me luck!!