ANOTHER welding question

ChestonScout

opinions are like Jeeps..
Location
Clinton, Ut
I was at Home Depot the other day to buy a spool of mig wire and I saw that they have aluminum mig wire. Has anyone used this?? Do you need different sheilding gas?? :confused:

Thanks
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
yes, you need 100% argon. There are a several different grades of aluminum wire the easiest to use (IMO) is 4043, it lays a nice smooth bead, a stronger alternative to 4043 is 5356. It's been quite a while since I did anything with aluminum but if you have questions fire away and I'll do my best answer them.
 

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Wydaho
I've heard that it is better to use a spool gun instead of running the aluminum wire internally. Something about the softer wire clogging and/or getting stuck.

Is this true?
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
I've heard that it is better to use a spool gun instead of running the aluminum wire internally. Something about the softer wire clogging and/or getting stuck.

Is this true?
very true. Aluminum wire is soft, no matter the grade. If you use it with your standard gun then you better make sure you have a new liner for it, and your cable is straight as you can get. Also, if you run it in your standard gun I'd suggest the 5356 stuff (I believe that's the grade, it's been a while so I may be off a little) because it is a harder/stiffer wire. What happens is your wire will "bird nest" in your liner if you're not careful. A spool gun makes it so instead of having the get pushed 5-10ft it's only pushed 6" and it's a straight shot. We had a push-pull setup at my old job, basically it allowed us to use a huge spool (40lb??) and would push it at the machine but we also had a gun that looked like a spool gun without the spool that would pull. Our cable was 25-30ft long. We also had another machine setup with just a spool gun, and even with both these setups we'd still get bird nesting so with them I imagine it would be very frustrating.
 

78mitsu

Registered User
I tried using mixed gas to weld al, doesn't work, just balls up into little balls on the top of the al, I switched to AR,I used a steel liner, and it seemed to work for about 5 minutes of welding, then id get a rather unstable feed rate. Let everything cool, then go at it again and it'd work again, but it was frustrating. The welding shop recommended buying an aluminum stinger, (aluminum liner and gun internals) so the metals expand at the same rate so they don't jar - I didn't I don't weld al that much, also said it was a good Idea to pre-heat, then clean the weld surfaces while they're hot, then weld.
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
I tried using mixed gas to weld al, doesn't work, just balls up into little balls on the top of the al, I switched to AR,I used a steel liner, and it seemed to work for about 5 minutes of welding, then id get a rather unstable feed rate. Let everything cool, then go at it again and it'd work again, but it was frustrating. The welding shop recommended buying an aluminum stinger, (aluminum liner and gun internals) so the metals expand at the same rate so they don't jar - I didn't I don't weld al that much, also said it was a good Idea to pre-heat, then clean the weld surfaces while they're hot, then weld.
Never heard of an aluminum gun nor have I ever heard of preheating to weld aluminum. You should have a dedicated liner to the aluminum (if you use one that's been used with standard wire you'll get contaminated wire) and dedicated drive rollers are also a good idea (for the same reason). For cleaning, just get a good stainless steel hand brush and scrub the hell out of it. If you try to use a grinder you'll often just embed the impurities even deeper.
 
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Verceingetorix

Active Member
welding

Also, I believe you can use mix gas that is argon, and up to 25% helium that works really well for aluminium welding, used to use it where I used to work. As for preheating it can help the welding process on thicker peices but too much heat or extended periods of heat can have a negative effect on aluminium overall strength of the metal at the weld joint. Also stay away from the 5356 wire as even though it is a harder wire ( less bird nesting ) it needs more amperage to get good weld penatration. If your welder is a lower amperage machine stick with the 4043 wire. Just make sure to clean the oxide off really well as a good weld needs good preparation especially on AL
 

78mitsu

Registered User
Never heard of an aluminum gun nor have I ever heard of preheating to weld aluminum. You should have a dedicated liner to the aluminum (if you use one that's been used with standard wire you'll get contaminated wire) and dedicated drive rollers are also a good idea (for the same reason). For cleaning, just get a good stainless steel hand brush and scrub the hell out of it. If you try to use a grinder you'll often just embed the impurities even deeper.

I figured he was trying to upsell based on my ignorance, I just put the wire in and hooked up the tank, even took the same regulator. and had at it. It's not as easy to weld al as it is steel, just a different animal, but did what I wanted.
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
I figured he was trying to upsell based on my ignorance, ...

most likely, I'm sure Jake will chime in a correct me if I'm wrong but I've done a ton of aluminum welding and I've never heard of one nor has it ever been mentioned to me in all my visits from factory reps.
 

Tjjeepjunkie

J.A.M. Off-Road Racing
Location
Utah
There is a variety of aluminum guns out there now. I have never heard of anyone having to preheat aluminum though. All depends what welder is being used as to what method to weld aluminum. Caleb is right in saying dedicated liner and drive rolls for aluminum and better luck using 5356 and at least a 035 wire size.
 

Verceingetorix

Active Member
Al

The preheat only would apply to thicker AL and to those how have a low amperage welder. If you do use the 5356 and using a smaller machine just turn it up the amps a little higher and you should be fine.
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
The preheat only would apply to thicker AL and to those how have a low amperage welder. If you do use the 5356 and using a smaller machine just turn it up the amps a little higher and you should be fine.


Actually, I would rather just prepare my joint properly, which could/would include a nice good bevel and multiple passes while welding.
 
i weld aluminum at work about once a month or so but other than tig the spool gun is the best way to go and if u are going to mig it u do want a teflon liner and a u groove roller and the shorter your lead the better off u will be
 

KHalls

Extendurai
Location
Up The Creek
I'd like to chime in here and ask about technique. Do you run the bead the same as you would a steel weld, or does it take a different way. I tried once with limited results. I think it was a cleanliness thing. I ground the weld area.
 
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