anti wrap bars done any thoughts

[420willys]

i posted this on pirate but i want some more thougths, specs are JJ on the axles side with a mounts welded to the spring pearch, the tubing is 1.5'' 3/16 wall that go into a 3/4 5/8 combo hiem with a mount welded to my tube frame. i seen this done before but never got the outcome from it. i dont have the drive shafts in the jeep so i wont be able to test it and with my trip to paragon around the corner i would like to get it right, sorry for the crappy picts, jason.

 

[AINT SKEERED]

That will bind. One end needs to be able to move forward to back, most accomplish this with a shackle type mount on one end.

 

[420willys]

That will bind. One end needs to be able to move forward to back, most accomplish this with a shackle type mount on one end.

ok i see what you mean, i have thought about that and i think i have room to incoperate a shackle, if not i can cut the mount and move it, jason.

 

[Herzog]

That will bind. One end needs to be able to move forward to back, most accomplish this with a shackle type mount on one end.

That is only if it's a ladder type traction bar.

That design looks like it should work, but probably not as effective as a ladder bar. Visualizing it mentally seems like it would do what you need it to.

 

[Herzog]

ok i see what you mean, i have thought about that and i think i have room to incoperate a shackle, if not i can cut the mount and move it, jason.

A shackle or horizontal pivoting point in your current design will render it useless.

Have you cycled the suspension yet to see if there is any serious binding?

 

[420willys]

i have them on bolth side i wonder if i can run just one side, like i said i seen it before just not as often as the ladder bar. if it binds i will run a ladder, but i realy dont have the room under the jeep for one with out redoing my skid pan, this was easyer cause its all right there, jason.

 

[420willys]

A shackle or horizontal pivoting point in your current design will render it useless.

Have you cycled the suspension yet to see if there is any serious binding?

no to tight in the garage, i will have it out side before the weekend just have to finish my rear or front shaft, jason.

 

[DevinB]

With that type of setup, you will avoid axlewrap in the tradition sense but during flex you will actually force your springs to twist into a slight "S" shape. You NEED a shackle to avoid that. Your springs are in an arch shape. When you compress that spring, it lengthens, right? That's why you have shackles on one end of your leafs. But since you attached a stiff bar to the middle of your leaf, it will force that point of attachment to stay static, and your leaf, in turn, will pivot around that and twist. Does that make sense at all?

While your setup may "work" it's by no means optimal. As much work as it may be, the best way to conquer wrap is with a ladder-type bar as closely centered on your axle on the passenger side as possible.

 

[420willys]

With that type of setup, you will avoid axlewrap in the tradition sense but during flex you will actually force your springs to twist into a slight "S" shape. You NEED a shackle to avoid that. Your springs are in an arch shape. When you compress that spring, it lengthens, right? That's why you have shackles on one end of your leafs. But since you attached a stiff bar to the middle of your leaf, it will force that point of attachment to stay static, and your leaf, in turn, will pivot around that and twist. Does that make sense at all?

While your setup may "work" it's by no means optimal. As much work as it may be, the best way to conquer wrap is with a ladder-type bar as closely centered on your axle on the passenger side as possible.

what you said make's perfect sence, i see now that theres no give for the springs but to "S" when under load. well i guess its trial and error on my part, i will try to add a shackle and see how it flexs but if its SNAFU i will junk it and build it right. keep the input coming, at least now i am learning, jason.

 

[spaggyroe]

Here's my favorite style of anti-wrap bar.

This particular one is sold by Sam's Offroad, but many, many people have built their own version of this.

 

[SAMI]

i run almost the exact style bar you've built Jason.... it works great in my opinion... i'll have to go get a pic of it...

-Jason

 

[RKCRWLR]

I ran a similar set up on my YJ. My brackets were out board and I used heims at both ends. I taped the frame and did the old measure a million times to get a length that would not bind much (jacking it up and plotting lots of dots at different lengths). The set up worked well. It was not as solid as being linked, as the spring can still bend under pressure, but it eliminated about 95% of my wrap issues.

Tim

 

[blazinzuk]

That style, while not as good as one that has a shackle and is mounted in the middle, can be made to work. as long as the springs and the bar move in the same arc it will help. Of course if it is the wrong length it will bind like crazy. The ones I have seen that are like that are usually the same length as the front part of the spring or just slightly longer.

The traction bar that was made popular from Sams off road is the better design, remember you are trying to control rotaional force and that is easier with two points on the part ( axle) rotating

On that I have seen many things that "won't work" work if you want to try it out with your current setup I would.

 

[DevinB]

...as long as the springs and the bar move in the same arc it will help...

That's the downfall of this type of setup. Since the spring is lengthening as it compresses, it follows a slightly different arc than a static bar. That's why a shackle is important, it allows for that forward/backward movement so the bar can follow the same arc.

 

[SAMI]

this is the anti wrap bar that was built by the previous owner, and i haven't taken it off because i haven't noticed any negative affects from it.... you might find something not quite right with it's design, but it works for me just fine as is...

-Jason

 

[Wanker Delux]

i have them on bolth side i wonder if i can run just one side, like i said i seen it before just not as often as the ladder bar. if it binds i will run a ladder, but i realy dont have the room under the jeep for one with out redoing my skid pan, this was easyer cause its all right there, jason.

I have seen similar ideas work very well. Spidertrax sells a kit where a single bar attaches above (for spring under) or below (for spring over) the center of the axle to form a triangle with the springs (when looking at it from the side).

Using this idea, I would suggest removing one side or the other, this will prevent each bar from trying to twist the axle in opposite directions when flexing. One possible downside is that the twisting force of the far wheel is transfered though the entire axle. But, thinking again, this always happens when only one traction bar is used no matter where it is attached.

 

[420willys]

ok i flex it outside, did'nt see to much binding and i took your advise wanker and pulled one side off, seemed to flex fine. i dont have the shafts in yet so i cant drive it because the front 60 is coming out this weeknd for new U-bolt and spring plates, mine are junk. i also installd two good shocks i had in place of the bars. they bolted to all the hard ware i had made for the anti wrap bars. i got to thinking maybe i can try them and see if they can control the wrap ( the shcoks ), since they can move in and out but still compress when the axle trys to wrap.
i have them mounted the same way as the bars where, i know some peaple are saying your over building when a ladder bar mounted to the alxe tube and a skid plate is far better. but i have it all there and will at least try it, i am rambaling now. what do you think of the shocks used instead is my next question, thanks and if you need picture of the shocks i can one later, jason.

 

[420willys]

yep that idea sucked, well it was'nt that bad but it still gave me the wrap i dont want. i now understand why and how to build it right, i will post up what i get done. heres the fun part we depart for paragon in two weeks, you say "whats the big deal" you have plenty of time did i mention i still have a long list of things that broke on a easy run last week, i will do it right, jason.

 

[420willys]

well insteed of starting a new thread i will add the revised anti wrap bar photos here. i did the more conventaul set-up with the shackle on the a section of the skid plate. i did'nt have any heavy wall tube so i used some SCH 80 pipe, should be good enough till i go coils in the rear, next year, jason.

 

[Herzog]

Nice job. That should do the trick for you.