Anyone have a net connected solar panel system?

[TurboMinivan]

And your source?

http://www.johnsavesenergy.com/YouCantAfford.html#.U8SbH0Dgxu1

EDIT: your article linked above was written back in 2012. According to John, PV solar panel prices have dropped about 250% in the last three years (his math, not mine), meaning the WSJ chart is significantly out of date today. FYI

 

[Caleb]

The logic of including it in your mortgage (IMO) is a terrible idea. That takes that bill and spreads it out over 10-30 years. So now, no matter what (short of paying off your house), you're paying for that solar setup for the length of your loan. IMO, if you have to finance it, keep them separate, so that the more you save on your electric bill, the more you can put towards it and pay it off well before the actual loan length.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

http://www.johnsavesenergy.com/YouCantAfford.html#.U8SbH0Dgxu1

EDIT: your article linked above was written back in 2012. According to John, PV solar panel prices have dropped about 250% in the last three years (his math, not mine), meaning the WSJ chart is significantly out of date today. FYI

Oh, according to John. My bad lol.

I think there is a fundamental difference between maintaining the same standard of living and paying for a standard install versus a dedicated electrical engineer whom took it upon himself to not only save thousands with the install but also make many other changes to his house, electric cars, letc. While it is obvious solar can have a much quicker payoff to those willing to really make it work for their needs, I think the situations presented by WSJ are far more typical of the average users. My next door neighbors had a full system installed on their house this last year. I had a chance to check out the system and talk with the contractors installing it, even they were saying 5-10 years depending on how your power your home. Take for example John, he uses under 1100 kwh per month after all of his very health (and costly) house mods (gas dryer, insulation, etc) and that number includes 3k for his car charging. I use over 1500 per month. Our house is older but has new energy efficient windows, HVAC system and insulation. Let's assume I get the same result he does out of the panels. It's going to take how long for those to pay off? Likely better than 15 years in my case.

Now, is 7-15 years that damning? I don't think so. If your going to be in your current house more than that number, then it very well makes sense no? I guess it comes down to an investment and ROI. I have better investments to do with my money currently As with anything in the tech realm, something better is around the corner and soon it will be an absolute no-brainer to buy.

 

[TurboMinivan]

Oh, according to John. My bad lol.

Some might say the guy is fanatical; I humbly propose that he is just an average guy who is showing what is possible via simple changes that do not compromise your standard of living. It is up to each of us to determine our individual level of commitment to any such change of lifestyle.

The real reason I say the WSJ article is no longer valid is simply this: it says a 5 kW solar system costs over $19,000 after the federal credit but not counting any other rebates. Back then, this was undoubtedly true. John points out you can now purchase a 5 kW system for a mere $3600 after the federal credit but not counting any other rebates. That is a significant difference. How long would it take you to "make back" only thirty six hundred bucks?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Some might say the guy is fanatical; I humbly propose that he is just an average guy who is showing what is possible via simple changes that do not compromise your standard of living. It is up to each of us to determine our individual level of commitment to any such change of lifestyle.

Sorry, but driving an electric truck that looks like this:

Unequivocally compromises my standard of living in a variety of ways



All this aside, I need a new roof on my house and my wife and I have discuss solar during the process. Might be a few years out but we are committed to owning this house for a long time so the investment make yield results for us.

 

[TurboMinivan]

Sorry, but driving an electric truck that looks like this:

Unequivocally compromises my standard of living in a variety of ways

But, but... it's a Toyota!!!

 

[cruiseroutfit]

But, but... it's a Toyota!!!

I know and I really did try to like it but the lack of range and low speeds sealed the deal!

 

[glockman]

I know a couple of the Reps from Solartek Solutions if you haven't gotten in touch with them already. The financing is the real innovation these days as everyone sells pretty much comparable PV tech. Being able to transform the electric bill into the payment for the cells is awesome. Let me know if you'd like their contact info. 801-648-9499 text me

My best friend actually just had a system installed by Solartek. His system was $8K more than the bids I got for an identical system. I am actually having a very hard time deciding if it's worth it to do the install myself. As an Electronics tech I am more than capable, just filling out the rebates and dealing with permits is a pain. How much $ is that pain worth? Still up in the air on that.


Kurt, The contractors I talked to told me you can include a re-roof in the "system" since it is the base that it's built on. This means you get a rebate of %40 on the roof too. I know some people won't think this is ethical but I have no issues with it. I pay road tax on every gallon of gas I burn in my dirt bike, lawn mower, generator and rototiller and they never touch pavement. I'll call this an offset tax credit One guy said he could even replace my A/C and count it since it is powered by the system, it is considered a load and therefore part of it. YMMV.

 

[Unimog]

A solar power system might be worth it even if you are in the house less than the payback, assuming it is worth something to the new owners. That is a big assumption, though, based on whether you believe technology will improve significantly. I'm of the opinion it will, although I don't have any facts to back it up.

 

[nnnnnate]

I wonder which has a higher benefit: upgrade your home to be more energy efficient or install solar panels? Obviously best case is to do both but if you had X amount of money to make home modifications where would the most benefit come from?

 

[gijohn40]

even if technology does get better... you can still remove the old panels and replace them with newer that will increase the efficiency and lower the break even point. These systems are built to be replaceable and repairable. if I had the money and my own house I would do it in a heartbeat. one of the electricians that use to work for us has a nice 6 kw system he built himself along with 3 wind turbines... he lives completely off the grid and sells back enough power to make money on his set up. Rocky mountain power hates him and is thinking of not buying back his power due to it costs them money to maintain the wiring to transport the energy back... so they are losing money both ways....

This is why this energy source is not widely used... the power companies are fighting it cause they end up losing money to maintain the transport system.

 

[comingdown]

When my parents did solar panels on their house, they had to do a new roof. however, we had a propane tank that we would use to power as much as we could, stove, dryer, water heater, but as soon as the solar panels went in, he changed everything to electric with the exception of the stove. You can be running everything during the day, and the meter would turn backwards, but it has lost some of its efficiency as the years go by. Seems like hey did their install 8 years ago. It did save them a ton on their bills at first and the benefits have paid for the costs. My father is a believer though, and has now put those on his other house now as well. Of course this is in san diego where we get lots more sun shine yearly.

 

[glockman]

So to update this thread.

I am no longer going to go with a contractor. After quite a few hours of research I found an identical system to the ones I was quoted for around $12K before rebates. When I get everything ironed out I will be installing a system myself. Everything I have seen and read points to it being super simple. It's really plug and play all the way up to the disconnect at your meter/service panel and that I will have to pay a licensed Electrician for anyway. I'll update the thread once I buy the system.

Here is the system I am looking at.

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/syste...cro-inverter-grid-tie-solar-power-system.html

It includes all the panels, micro inverters, mounting racks and flashing for mounting to the roof. After rebates it will be approx $7K.

I currently pay $1800 a year for electricity and that has gone up 7% per year for the last 3 years. So with no increase in cost a little under 4 years and I am making money.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

So to update this thread.

I am no longer going to go with a contractor. After quite a few hours of research I found an identical system to the ones I was quoted for around $12K before rebates. When I get everything ironed out I will be installing a system myself. Everything I have seen and read points to it being super simple. It's really plug and play all the way up to the disconnect at your meter/service panel and that I will have to pay a licensed Electrician for anyway. I'll update the thread once I buy the system.

Here is the system I am looking at.

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/syste...cro-inverter-grid-tie-solar-power-system.html

It includes all the panels, micro inverters, mounting racks and flashing for mounting to the roof. After rebates it will be approx $7K.

I currently pay $1800 a year for electricity and that has gone up 7% per year for the last 3 years. So with no increase in cost a little under 4 years and I am making money.

Very cool. Keep us posted on the process. The installation price is the big hinge on the benefit for the project for many, if it is in fact a straight forward install I'd guess it becomes a far better ROI both monetarily and time.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

RMP lobbying to charge solar users. Not a deal breaker at ~$5/month but that will only increase much like power costs.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/58233423-90/solar-customers-fee-utility.html.csp

 

[Corban_White]

RMP lobbying to charge solar users. Not a deal breaker at ~$5/month but that will only increase much like power costs.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/58233423-90/solar-customers-fee-utility.html.csp

I think this is a great idea. I think an even better idea is to have net meter customers buy power at the retail rate but sell it back to the power utility at the wholesale rate. It is completely unreasonable to expect to be able to use the entire power grid for free just because you replaced what was used. What about delivery??? What about the costs incurred to generate the power when the sun isn't shining?? The whole idea of net metering with the same rate (price) no matter which direction the meter is spinning is like me taking 10 t-shirts out of my closet into Walmart and exchanging them for 10 new ones, wearing each one and then doing it again. Why should I have to pay Walmart anything? I gave them back the same thing they gave me?? If someone doesn't want to pay the power company then go off grid. Then they will be paying for all the maintenance costs instead of free loading off of the other rate payers. Don't get me wrong I think solar is a good thing (unsubsidized of course) and have considered it myself. I just strongly believe that people should pay the true cost of what they receive. If "grid storage" is desired then the cost of that storage should be charged. And I truly believe that the best way to accomplish this is to do away with straight net metering. Just pay the retail rate to purchase power from the retailer and they will pay the wholesale rate to purchase power back from the customer.

 

[skeptic]

I think this is a great idea. I think an even better idea is to have net meter customers buy power at the retail rate but sell it back to the power utility at the wholesale rate. It is completely unreasonable to expect to be able to use the entire power grid for free just because you replaced what was used. What about delivery??? What about the costs incurred to generate the power when the sun isn't shining?? The whole idea of net metering with the same rate (price) no matter which direction the meter is spinning is like me taking 10 t-shirts out of my closet into Walmart and exchanging them for 10 new ones, wearing each one and then doing it again. Why should I have to pay Walmart anything? I gave them back the same thing they gave me?? If someone doesn't want to pay the power company then go off grid. Then they will be paying for all the maintenance costs instead of free loading off of the other rate payers. Don't get me wrong I think solar is a good thing (unsubsidized of course) and have considered it myself. I just strongly believe that people should pay the true cost of what they receive. If "grid storage" is desired then the cost of that storage should be charged. And I truly believe that the best way to accomplish this is to do away with straight net metering. Just pay the retail rate to purchase power from the retailer and they will pay the wholesale rate to purchase power back from the customer.

I don't think the T-shirt analogy is a good one, but I do think the retail/wholesale idea makes perfect sense. Honestly though, I thought power companies already did this (too lazy to look it up).

 

[jackjoh]

Sounds right to me.

 

[Caleb]

So to update this thread.

I am no longer going to go with a contractor. After quite a few hours of research I found an identical system to the ones I was quoted for around $12K before rebates. When I get everything ironed out I will be installing a system myself. Everything I have seen and read points to it being super simple. It's really plug and play all the way up to the disconnect at your meter/service panel and that I will have to pay a licensed Electrician for anyway. I'll update the thread once I buy the system.

Here is the system I am looking at.

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/syste...cro-inverter-grid-tie-solar-power-system.html

It includes all the panels, micro inverters, mounting racks and flashing for mounting to the roof. After rebates it will be approx $7K.

I currently pay $1800 a year for electricity and that has gone up 7% per year for the last 3 years. So with no increase in cost a little under 4 years and I am making money.

Have you pulled the trigger on this yet? I'm about to do a solar setup on my house. Looking at my past two years of bills, my average usage is 1293kWh which means I need to do a 8.6K-10.8K watt system (depending on who's calculator I use). I've been looking at a lot of the DIY kits and I'm really leaning this way. I'm going to have a few companies come out and give me their shpeels, but if I can make all the rebates and incentives work, I'll just do it myself. One other thing if you haven't already pulled the trigger that you are probably missing in your costs/rebates is if you apply (and get accepted) for the RMP solar lottery, you will get another rebate of up to $4600 for next year. If you're at $7k without that, you're now at $2400 bucks total out of pocket.

I just had a friend do this, did everything himself (besides the few steps he had to have a licensed electrician do) and his total our of pocket for a 7020 watt system is $2,239.67 with an ROI of just over 26 months. My ROI is looking to be around 37-38 months. This is using the SolarEdge inverters, mono crystalline panels, etc. Got all his stuff through renvu.com.

 

[gijohn40]

I would really be interested in helping whoever buys and decides to install this themselves... I am trying to buy a house and would love to install this on it when its finally mine so by helping you I can make a better decision on how to install it on my house....

I had a license as an electrician but I changed jobs recently and will be letting my license lapse.