Anyone play with E85 and boost?

Greg

I run a tight ship... wreck
Admin
I have a 5.3 LM7 in the shop, been thinking that I'd like to play with E85 and a turbo. I've heard that with somewhat conservative tune and timing map, you don't really need an intercooler.

Now I'm not anti-intercooler and this wouldn't be in a drag car that's going to see all out use... just a play car. Probably keep the boost kinda low... 10-12 psi? 700 HP I'd guess?

I'd put this in the '67 Pontiac Bonneville on 35's... 😈
 

Greg

I run a tight ship... wreck
Admin
Summit Racing has this quality but affordable S475 turbo for $660 that should work great.


Some 80# injectors and a quality management system like a Holley Terminator would be a great start.
 

N-Smooth

Smooth Gang Founding Member
Location
UT
Ryan runs 92% ethanol with boost but that’s with a supercharged 1.5L so it’s a little different lol
 

bryson

RME Resident Ninja
Supporting Member
Location
West Jordan
I didn't know that 10-12 psi was considered "kinda low" for a gasser... Aren't most OEM FI gas engines in the mid single digits for boost?

700 horsey powers in the Bonneville does sound pretty neat though!
 

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
I've heard that with somewhat conservative tune and timing map, you don't really need an intercooler.

Stop right there. As Corky Bell wrote in his book Maximum Boost, an intercooler is not merely icing on the cake. It is more cake. While it is possible to run without an intercooler, it would be just plain silly to do so.

Even Matt Happel (of Sloppy Mechanics fame) always runs an intercooler on his LS turbo setups, even when running E85.

Now I'm not anti-intercooler and this wouldn't be in a drag car that's going to see all out use... just a play car.

An intercooler provides many benefits to a turbocharged engine, perhaps the most important being increased resistance to engine-killing detonation. Extra power is just a nice added benefit.

It can’t be this straightforward to get ~700hp… can it? 😳

As they say: if it were that easy, everyone would be doing it.

But let's talk about it. In a perfect world of 100% efficiency, running 14.7 psi of boost would exactly double the horsepower output of an engine. Running 12 pounds of boost (again, assuming 100% efficiency) would add about 80% more power, and could turn a n/a 400 crank hp engine into a 700 crank hp engine.

Goodness knows it is easy enough to make an LM7 generate 400 crank hp on a dyno with just a cam and spring swap. Add a hair dryer and intercooler to that engine and you should be all set, right? The devil of longevity will be in the tuning details.

I didn't know that 10-12 psi was considered "kinda low" for a gasser... Aren't most OEM FI gas engines in the mid single digits for boost?

Nowadays on direct-injected engines, OEM boost levels of 20 psi and more are common. But back in the early days of port injection (and especially with no intercooler!), 10 psi of boost was quite high.
 

Greg

I run a tight ship... wreck
Admin
Stop right there. As Corky Bell wrote in his book Maximum Boost, an intercooler is not merely icing on the cake. It is more cake. While it is possible to run without an intercooler, it would be just plain silly to do so.

Even Matt Happel (of Sloppy Mechanics fame) always runs an intercooler on his LS turbo setups, even when running E85.

An intercooler provides many benefits to a turbocharged engine, perhaps the most important being increased resistance to engine-killing detonation. Extra power is just a nice added benefit.

lol.... I knew someone would make a big deal out of running w/o an intercooler which is why I'm asking if anyone has experience on here with E85 and boost... I understand the reasons why you run an intercooler, that its a much safer for tuning, etc, etc. I get that you're leaving power on the table without an intercooler as well.

I was reading on LS1Tech and a guy with a LM7 was asking about a similar build and was recommended against an intercooler for some pretty logical reasons. Post #15.

 

Greg

I run a tight ship... wreck
Admin
It can’t be this straightforward to get ~700hp… can it? 😳

I would be VERY interested in learning more and seeing this progress. Sounds fun.

Richard Holdner has made a name for himself for taking a junkyard 5.3, opening up the ring gap and running an EBay turbo on it (usually running Race Gas 115 octane and an intercooler) pushing excessive amounts of boost thru a stock engine and making stupid power. There's an episode or 2 with him pushing 1000 HP out of this setup.

Here's a vid of a 5.3 with some upgrades (heads, cam, valve springs, intake) and twin turbos making 24#'s of boost and 1300 HP... it's insane.



I can sell you 50 gallon drums of E85.

I appreciate that, I'd look for a local pump though... it would be a lot more convenient for me.


I didn't know that 10-12 psi was considered "kinda low" for a gasser... Aren't most OEM FI gas engines in the mid single digits for boost?

700 horsey powers in the Bonneville does sound pretty neat though!

Maybe 10-12 should be considered mid.... single digits being low, teens & up being high boost #'s? Sound fair?

500 horse in the Bonneville would be fun, 700+ would be silly. :rofl:
 

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
Richard Holdner has made a name for himself for taking a junkyard 5.3, opening up the ring gap and running an EBay turbo on it (usually running Race Gas 115 octane and an intercooler) pushing excessive amounts of boost thru a stock engine and making stupid power.

Yes, precisely. Richard is a great guy. Watch his videos and do what he does. 👍
 

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
lol.... I can't afford to burn 115 octane race gas. Hence E85.

What I would like to do--yes, this is an itch I am also wanting to scratch--is turbocharge and intercool an LM7 but keep the boost low enough that I can run it on 91 octane pump gas. If I don't go wild when selecting an upgraded camshaft and I keep the timing curve in check, I'm thinking I can run perhaps 7 or 8 pounds of boost. That should still be fun.
 

Greg

I run a tight ship... wreck
Admin
What I would like to do--yes, this is an itch I am also wanting to scratch--is turbocharge and intercool an LM7 but keep the boost low enough that I can run it on 91 octane pump gas. If I don't go wild when selecting an upgraded camshaft and I keep the timing curve in check, I'm thinking I can run perhaps 7 or 8 pounds of boost. That should still be fun.

Plenty of fun, for sure! Running on pump gas would be way more convenient, honestly.
 
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