AZ Swat team kills Marine

[Tacoma]

Plain and simple, if you dont want SWAT knocking down your door-- obey the laws and don't deal drugs. Being a SWAT Officer is a dangerous job. I am glad no Officers were injured. It is a shame the former marine lost his life. My guess is any hesitation by the officers involved would have led to five funerals instead of one. None of the monday night quarterbacks can say exactly what the suspected drug dealers intentions were. Seems that the news needed a story and what you get is their understanding of what happened.

I'd love to agree with that but there are WAY too many cases nationwide of the wrong house, wrong guy, etc getting the short end. Way too many.

Cops have a hard job, and I fully support the police in doing it, but it can be done better-- philosophically, the upsurge in military-style raids at the expense of liberty worries me. A lot.

 

[gijohn40]

My ex worked as a dispatcher and they always had medical waiting down the street on any swat raid they did... this was procedure and the raid was not allowed to start until medical was in place.... so if this is standard operation procedure then why did it take medics as long as it did? My feelings is that someone did not want someone to survive so that they could take officers to court and win a multi millon dollar law suit....

This is just wrong...

 

[1\4elliptic toy]

This is a case of bad intelligence. SWAT was there doing there job, problem is they fired a ridiculous amount of bullets and there are very mixed reports on rather or not the guy even pointed the gun at them or not.
I have read alot of the reports about this shooting. The bottom line is that they found ZERO PROOF that he had drugs in the home. 71 rounds? are you effing serious? who and the hell fires that many rounds at ONE guy? The medics were on scene and they (SWAT) refused to let them enter until the house was "safe" it took over and hour? again are you serious? an hour to secure the home? give me a break!!

It looks like the guy had a cloudy past and has ties to pretty bad people...I guess in america that's enough for the law enforcement community to break down your door and kill you.

According to several of the reports they (SWAT) were well informed the possibility of him being "heavily armed" sounds like a case of trigger happiness to me. Shoot first ask questions later...guilty until proven innocent.

He WAS innocent, he had not one thing in the house they could have arrested him for, no illegal guns, no drugs, nothing but he is dead and the officers got away scott free.
Way to go america!!

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I don't think it took took an hour+ for medics to arrive rather that is when the crime scene was secure and they were allowed access to the now body.

Some very disturbing details, would love to have more details.

 

[brokejeep]

What I am having a hard time with is you are getting details from a news report.
It is very easy for reporters to leave information out and report things one way or another to sway emotion of the general public.
As far as 70+ bullets....we are trained to shoot till the threat stops. I am guessing that if the team is equipped like the one I work for they have full auto long guns. I have been around several officer involved shootings....it is sad but I am glad the Officers go home to their families at night.
After a shooting if you ask and Officer how many rounds were fired they never know. In a stressful situation tunnel vision and auditory exclusion sets in making it immpossible to count your rounds when you are in fear of loosing your life. After the Trolley Square shooting did any of you question the amount of rounds that stopped the shooter from killing more innocent people. The quicker I can put rounds down range the quicker I stop the threat.
I have no responce for the lack of medical attention the team I operate on has paramedics that are on the entry team. Ready to give aid to suspect or Officer.

This was not a case of wrong address, the former marine was a suspected drug dealer.
Again like in my previous post..... Before a warrant is served the investigation is completed, there are many times that dealers run out of drugs and waiting to be resupplied.
I would be interested see what type of drug packaging material and other evidence was recovered. All the report says is that NO drugs were located that does not mean other evidence was not recovered.

If you watch the youtube video of the Officers helmet cam you will see the warrant was served mid day. The Officers are wearing uniforms with clear Police markings. There is a Officer Announcing over a P/A that it is the police serving a search warrant and a police siren is sounded.
After being in a gun fight the team performs a surround and callout rather than storming the castle and risking getting an Officer injured. I am questioning why the wife did not come out and inform the officers that her husband was bleeding out on the floor rather than staying in the home for an extended period of time.....Maybe she was flushing the drugs???? Again we can not make fair judgements based on news reports....

 

[NoTrax]

This was over an alleged marijuana operation, another reason that that kind of legislation leads to more harm than good. This wasn't even the right house... apparently or wrong information. Enough already uncle sam.

http://www.myspace.com/captain_joint/blog/543062736

Should the cops get charged, or not is irrelevant I believe they acted in accordance with what they have been trained to do. What is unlawful is the approval from their superiors to approve this type of BS that ended in a dead Marine, who was defending his home, all over marijuana. What kind of world are we coming too?

I happen to be on a SWAT team.....We don't just choose doors to knock down. It takes substantial evidence to obtain a warrant. First, you need probable cause. Next, attorneys review the case. Finally, it is signed by a judge prior to being approved.

If I cared enough I could pull up more news stories than anyone here would care to read that throws all that you just stated into the wind.

Police, can and will do whatever the hell they want ( not all obviously ) All they have to do is "claim" they smelled something, and heard movement, and kick in the door to "preserve evidence" There is enough of them in the good ole boys club to make sure there was enough "reason" to defy our rights as citizens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3A1HGCorrs Video of family citing marijuana, do a search.

Originally Posted by brokejeep View Post
Plain and simple, if you don't want SWAT knocking down your door-- obey the laws and don't deal drugs. Being a SWAT Officer is a dangerous job. I am glad no Officers were injured. It is a shame the former marine lost his life. My guess is any hesitation by the officers involved would have led to five funerals instead of one. None of the monday night quarterbacks can say exactly what the suspected drug dealers intentions were. Seems that the news needed a story and what you get is their understanding of what happened.


Here is what happened in Connecticut last week, and a statement from the Governor of the state

Governor Dannel P. Malloy sponsored the bill and is now expected to sign it into law.

And I love this statement from the governor:

"Final approval of this legislation accepts the reality that the current law does more harm than good - both in the impact it has on people's lives and the burden it places on police, prosecutors and probation officers of the criminal justice system. Let me make it clear - we are not legalizing the use of marijuana. In modifying this law, we are recognizing that the punishment should fit the crime, and acknowledging the effects of its application. There is no question that the state's criminal justice resources could be more effectively utilized for convicting, incarcerating and supervising violent and more serious offenders."
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2011/06/connecticut_decriminalizes_mar.php

That makes 14 states that has decriminalized. If Arizona had been one, we would have one more person not dead.

Oh and this is Icing on the cake, so now we are talking, Hey don't smoke pot! its illegal we will break in your house, and ruin your life and kill you, so just don't do it!

Go GI JOE!

 

[LT.]

Facts: 0900 hours, 71 rounds, dead marine, wife and child in the home, another one at school, marine had rifle in hand, weapon had not been fired, rifle was on safe, over an hour before medical was on scene, police secured all files days after, police changed their story more than once, now will not comment, for an illegal drug (pot), no drugs found.

Broke jeep, I work for a government contractor and I understand where you are coming from but, in this instance the SWAT teams actions were not appropriate. Any body in that position is trained to de-escalate the situation. This SWAT team did not do what they should have been trained for. Also, you should have been trained on trigger control. 70+ shots is NOT trigger control.

I will agree with Broke jeep on some points, they are not the only ones who need to be looked at. It also sounds like their intel was wrong. Where did the intel come from? The SWAT team was probabally following orders and those orders came from someone. Who? I know that you will get tunnel vision and it happens all to frequently. I know we do not remember much of the engagement after the fact. Rounds go unaccounted for and actions take over. However, any self respecting department would also have officers on hand to take control after the incident.

An hour to clear a house?! One person should have been able to clear the house in a minute or so. Again, this shows the poor judgement and lack of training. I understand that the team has little time and we have forever to pick apart their actions. But this is TOTAL B.S.

I believe the police department still uses this to define reasonable force, "Only the minimum force required to overtake the opposing force." They did not use reasonable force.

LT.

 

[Herzog]

Where did the intel come from? The SWAT team was probabally following orders and those orders came from someone. Who?

x2.

 

[Manlaan]

i just want to make a few points...

If I, as a citizen, were to fire my rifle 14 times at someone, I'm sure I would be prosecuted for unreasonable force. Those gun shots in the helmet cam were semi auto.

If a member of SWAT was injured, would it have still taken over an hour for that member to get medical assistance? If so, the hour is justified. If not, whoever stopped it should be charged with manslaughter at the least.

The wife was quickly escorted out according to her own interview, in which her first concern/comment was asking that her husband receive medical attention. Obviously someone decided to deny that request/right.

I'm willing to put money on it that every single household in the country could be found guilty of having drug items in their house. You have plastic wrap/plastic baggies, dont you? How many people have a garden? If all it takes for reasonable cause is to have items that drug dealers have, we are all at risk to some degree. I just dont buy this whole "drug packaging" argument at all, and it is not reasonable cause to enter a home in this manor.

Of course we dont have the whole story, and we probably never will, but from what I know, this guy should never have been served a warrant in this manor. Honorably discharged Ex-marine, moderate house, children in school, minivan in the driveway, no previous record or history of substance abuse (he owned firearms, he wouldn't be able to legally own those if there was a record of such -- Innocent until proven guilty, and if the firearms were illegally owned, you can guarantee the police would have mentioned that to begin with).


I'm afraid of what the police would think of me if they decided I was a bad guy. Probably charge me with bomb making (tannerite and reloading supplies), gun running (quite a few more firearms than 3 with cases of ammo), and maybe even drug dealing since I have some plastic bags and a scale and I'm sure they could find some coffee grounds...

 

[NoTrax]

These are some of the reasons I have at the top of my list for moving to Amsterdam...