bent axle ......I hope not.

[Pike2350]

Ok, so I think i am in a bad place....and not sure where to go. I just had a bunch of work done by Scotty at Addicted on my Rodeo (redo the entire front end) After getting it home, I find out there is an inner axle seal that is bad....and leaking. While this was annoying, I figured it was possible damaged during the work (welding a new truss, new link mounts, etc) So I just wrote it off. However, Ryan noticed that the axle seal was flattened more on one side when he pulled the old seal....and said he thinks the axle tube could be bent. Ok, I'll keep an eye on it. Yesterday, I sprayed off the inner axle area with a carwash to try and get a cleaner area to gauge when/if the leak comes back. Well this morning it appears there might be a little leaking....I noticed a little oil on the inner tube and a few drips on the tire.

I'm really worried about this...since I already dumped a fair bit of money into it with Scotty, and the axle is "custom" it's a Ford hi-pinion D44 retubed to be passenger drop. Because of that, I am worried about the cost to replace it....let alone redo all the work on the axle tube. I never noticed or heard about any sort of leak prior to the axle getting worked on...and am not sure what is going on.

So, my question is, is there any place along the wasatch front that could look at it and see what's going on...and straighten it out if it needs it? I really hope it's ok and it's a fluke, but I really don't have the $$$ to be chasing these kinds of problems.

 

[sawtooth4x4]

Why not replace the seal and see what happens. Maybe it got nicked on installation, or isn't installed just right.

Since its been trussed, you really can't get it straight anymore. Probably should be been checked before all the welding was done. Or it could have warped depending on how it was welded up. Too much heat in one place could cause it to warp. I usually like to "jump" around when I'm welding stuff, to evenly distribute the heat.

 

[Pike2350]

Why not replace the seal and see what happens. Maybe it got nicked on installation, or isn't installed just right.

Since its been trussed, you really can't get it straight anymore. Probably should be been checked before all the welding was done. Or it could have warped depending on how it was welded up. Too much heat in one place could cause it to warp. I usually like to "jump" around when I'm welding stuff, to evenly distribute the heat.

Well i did just have the seal replaced (THANKS SKIPPY) it was the old seal that had a flat spot worn into it. the new seal is ok for now (I hope) I just noticed a little oil dripped on the tire and inside the tube. i'm hoping it's just residual oil, but am not sure.....maybe I'm being a little paranoid about it since Skippy said he thought it could be bent. I never noticed dripping before work was done...and Addicted did fix a leak from where the tube was slid into the center section...but that was on the driver side....the leak is on the passenger side.

 

[skippy]

Well i did just have the seal replaced (THANKS SKIPPY) it was the old seal that had a flat spot worn into it. the new seal is ok for now (I hope) I just noticed a little oil dripped on the tire and inside the tube. i'm hoping it's just residual oil, but am not sure.....maybe I'm being a little paranoid about it since Skippy said he thought it could be bent. I never noticed dripping before work was done...and Addicted did fix a leak from where the tube was slid into the center section...but that was on the driver side....the leak is on the passenger side.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that it was residual oil, but if Scotty had to repair a leak where the tube was pressed into the housing I want to say it was leaking there from previous damage (I cant say this for sure though)

Do you still have the seal I pulled out? post up a picture if it will show up...

Also we could do a seals it style seal they are really flexible and should make up for the bent housing and still allow it to seal...

 

[Pike2350]

I am keeping my fingers crossed that it was residual oil, but if Scotty had to repair a leak where the tube was pressed into the housing I want to say it was leaking there from previous damage (I cant say this for sure though)

Do you still have the seal I pulled out? post up a picture if it will show up...

Also we could do a seals it style seal they are really flexible and should make up for the bent housing and still allow it to seal...

Here's the pictures....hard to tell, but the angle is worn flat at the bottom of the seal in the pic

I am going to get it aligned later today or tomorrow and see what they say...i'm still hoping it's residual oil and nothing more.

Never heard of a Seals it style seal....that may work...at least I hope so if it's bent just a little.

 

[trevortoyota]

Not along the Wasatch but if you travel to Vegas I work at a shop that can straighten an axle. PM me for info if you need it....

 

[gertsch]

You say you had a truss installed? Did they weld it in big long section in a row and cause the housing to bend cause the welding of the truss pulled it?

 

[STAG]

Did addicted off-road do the truss/build the custom axle? If so, why not dealing directly with him?

 

[Pike2350]

I have contacted Scotty about it..just to let him know it might be a possibility...and while I'm not even sure it's bent just yet....I am just getting information at this point. Scotty did do the truss, although it's really just over the pumpkin for the 3rd link mount.....not much down the axle tubes. He also welded on the coilover mounts that gusset the C. I'm not 100% on it being bent....just going off what Skippy said, and then seeing oil on the tire right after getting the seal changed. I know the oil could be residual oil in the tube that is just coming out. Also, the other big problem is that Scotty didn't' actually build the axle....that was done by Outerlimit Motorsports. There was a leak on the connection of the long tube to the center section in the plug weld I had Scotty fix, BUT, the leaking I've experienced now is on the short tube.

Anyway....I don't know for sure yet....but wanted information....maybe a little premature, but I sort of got spooked after spending a bunch of money on it.

I did also get it aligned yesterday....and they said things look pretty good...however, someone pointed out that the SAI looks a little off, but wasn't sure it would be an issue...and since I'm not familiar with what the SAI even is, I am not sure. Also, since the axle is "custom" I didn't 'know what to have them use as the spec base....so it's just numbers to me....maybe someone with knowledge could tell me how it looks. Here are the figures.

Front: Left
Before After
Camber -.01" .01
Caster 5.5 5.5
Toe .62 .01
SAI 10.2 10.1
Included angle 10.1 10.1
Turning angle
Lateral offset .05

Front:right

Camber .05 .06
Caster 6.8 6.8
Toe .73 .01
SAI 13.8 13.7
Included angle 14.4 14.4
Turning angle
Lateral offset .31

Front

Cross Camber -.06 -.06
Cross Caster -1.3 -1.3
Cross SAI 3.6 3.7
Total Toe 1.35 .02
Setback -.28
Wheelbase difference .17
Track Width difference -.26

Anyone have any insight into these numbers?

 

[Pike2350]

So I've let this thing sit since I got it aligned...which was back on the 18th of November. I've barely driven this thing since getting it back from Colorado, after the 3 link (probably a total of 500 miles or less) However, I was at the place this has been sitting(stored at my duplex) and it's puking fluid out of the axle tube. Since Skippy replaced the axle seal I've put probably less then 200 miles on it...so it's barely been driven. After emailing Scotty, he says there is no way the welding they did could've caused it to be "bent" I'm not sure it's bent exactly, but something is wrong with it. I don't know if the axle seal didn't go in correctly when Skippy did it, but that is a suggestion that Scotty made.

This things never leaked out of the axle tube for the 3 years I had it before doing the 3-link, except for a small pancake size mark out of the plug weld (in 3 years of being parked in the same spot 90% of the time) (which Scotty fixed). Never did any fluid come out of the axle tube ends...and especially like it is now. So my question is 2 fold. What are good seals to put in there? Skippy mentioned a more forgiving seal....I may have to look into that, since I can't drive this truck at all right now (steering box is gushing out the sector shaft seal and this axle seal issue). Second, is it possible to mess up the cast center section doing a lot of welding? It's in the area that most of the welding was done (trackbar bracket, truss for upper 3rd link, etc.) Also, for as much as it's leaking I am sure Scotty would've said something....it would've been VERY OBVIOUS, since it sat over there for 6 months.

I'm really at a loss here and very bummed out I'm in this position. It seems the alignment numbers don't get much response...except one guy on Pirate suggested the cross camber is too high...but I'm clueless there.

Here are some pics of leak from sitting for 2-3 weeks now...and one of where the plug weld was.

 

[skippy]

Not to pass the blame in any way shape or form... But the amount of welding Scotty did on that axle would easily warp a housing and if you look at the welds they are all long continuous welds. I have warped a housing welding on a very similar setup on an 8.8 back before I new any better.

 

[Pike2350]

Not to pass the blame in any way shape or form... But the amount of welding Scotty did on that axle would easily warp a housing and if you look at the welds they are all long continuous welds. I have warped a housing welding on a very similar setup on an 8.8 back before I new any better.

That's my biggest concern. This axle was "custom" tubed to be high pinion D44 passenger side...so I't not just a matter of getting another one, short of going low pinion and having a bad driveline angle. A co-worker pointed out that the front shaft shouldn't even be turning since I don't have my hubs locked in (although there is the chance they aren't functioning properly and not unlocking, but I haven't checked yet) If that's the case, then I would think that the shaft shouldn't be messing with the seal unless the housing is off and causing the shaft to push against the seal (not sitting centered) unless I'm thinking about it incorrectly.

So, I'm not sure what to do at this point, but Scotty said he is pretty sure the amount of welding they did couldn't have caused any problems with the center section...but I'm not familiar enough with welding different materials to know....I obviously know, high heat on normal steel can warp if left long enough..but not sure on cast steel.

I guess I should ask on Pirate if this is possible.

I'm also not sure what my options are at this point.

 

[skippy]

If the shaft is not centered in the hub it could cause it to stay partially engaged by causing some friction on the hub it could stay engaged but if you put a load on it it should be enough to let it spin free

 

[jeeper]

Even a tiny bit of welding can cause a warp, it's not hard to screw up a little. Even a slight warp would cause an issue. My vote is try seals again, as it's easiest. but you may need to press Addicted offroad more.

 

[sawtooth4x4]

I'd say its warped, unless they built it in a jig. Which I doubt was done. How did they align the axle tubes. There is a special tool to hold the axle tubes in, to keep them straight. Did they do that? Everything should have been stitch welded. Stitch welding helps heat dissipate as you move around while welding. Then go back and fully weld the joint. Make sure to let the metal cool naturally. Do not dump water on it to cool it faster.

 

[Bobzilla]

The fact the seal is leaking on the short tube side would lead me to think the heat from the welding damaged the seal, with all the heat generated from welding it could damage a seal, by stitch welding you would reduce the possibility of seal damage.

 

[Pike2350]

I'd say its warped, unless they built it in a jig. Which I doubt was done. How did they align the axle tubes. There is a special tool to hold the axle tubes in, to keep them straight. Did they do that? Everything should have been stitch welded. Stitch welding helps heat dissipate as you move around while welding. Then go back and fully weld the joint. Make sure to let the metal cool naturally. Do not dump water on it to cool it faster.

There are 2 separate times the axle was dealt with. First, the axle was built by Outerlimit Motorsports....this was back in 2007 when the initial SAS was done. I have no idea how they built the axle, if they used a jig, or what not. 2nd was when I had the suspension changed to a 3-link...which didn't involve "building" the axle....just the work TO the axle. However, The guy I bought it from drove it around 2000 miles before selling it to me, and I put another 2000-2500 miles on it, all before the 3 link was done. The leaking has only been after the 3 link was completed. I am guessing that although there was a tiny leak out of the plug weld on the opposite side of the center section after it was built...but this leak was a tiny drip, that over the 3 years left only a pancake size mark on the driveway....unlike the leak out of the tube that, after only 3 weeks has left a pretty good puddle....especially after just having the seal replaced.

So, while there is the question regarding the way the axle was built...given that there was 4-5K miles put on it with no leak, I would think the problem is likely caused by the 3 link work.

Does anyone know of a company that can check to see if the axle is "true"?

 

[Pike2350]

The fact the seal is leaking on the short tube side would lead me to think the heat from the welding damaged the seal, with all the heat generated from welding it could damage a seal, by stitch welding you would reduce the possibility of seal damage.

I had that initial thought after it started leaking the first time...however, as I said, I had Skippy replace the seals at the beginning of November. Since then, it's started leaking a 2nd time, with only maybe 200 miles since the seal was already replaced once.

 

[Bobzilla]

I had that initial thought after it started leaking the first time...however, as I said, I had Skippy replace the seals at the beginning of November. Since then, it's started leaking a 2nd time, with only maybe 200 miles since the seal was already replaced once.

Oh I see well that's different I understand now, you are probably right It may be warped, good luck!

 

[Pile of parts]

Hard to tell from the pictures, but you're sure that's gear oil?. Just wondering if it was bake fluid from the caliper or something up above. Just trying to be optimistic about the condition of the axle tube. You've probably verified that already. Good Luck!