Best way to lengthen axle tubes

[BlackSheep]

OK,
Got a question for the group. All comments are appreciated.

How is the best way to lengthen a tube on an axle???

My situation:
I have a D44 from a scout (thanks Miatre), and I have a bent TJ D44 housing. Come to find out that the TJ housing is too badly bent to be of any use except as a donor for the brackets and the end caps (where the bearing fits and brake parts bolt to).

I'm going to build a waggy front D44 which is already wider than the stock TJ width (not too much, but wider).

I don't want to use a rear housing that is too narrow (the scout axle is narrower than the waggy by 2.5" or so). So, I need to widen the scout housing, then weld the TJ bracketry on.

Option 1:
replace the tube completely: remove the old tube completely from the pumpkin, then put in a new tube of the proper length.

Option 2
Cut the scout tubes as long as possible, then cut the ends off the TJ housing leaving enough length. Now, weld those TJ ends to the scout tubes (making sure the TJ ends are kept long enough to give me back the proper width).

Does it matter which way I go? Forget costs for a moment, think only of durability and strength.
What experiences does anyone have?

 

[Vonski]

So, you're saying the Wagoneer front axle is 2.5" wider overall than the Scout rear axle? It's common for 4x4's from the factory to have wider front axles. 1 1/4" per side difference is totally acceptable. Run 'em as-is. If it's a cosmetic issue, run wheel adapters on the rear (I wouldn't recommend a spacer using longer studs any thicker than 3/4", so the adapters would be better in this situation). I have always been skeptical of steel and especially aluminum adapters, but I never hear of any failures. I see them on serious trail/competition rigs all the time. What do the rest of ya think?

 

[Milner]

I agree, run them as is. But, if you must, you can completely replace your tubes and bearing pockets. Or, cut and sleeve the tubes. Some people do not like the idea of sleeving tubes, but I have seen it done a lot with out any failures. When I worked at AFWDS we sleeved 60/70 frts for medium duty trucks (2 ton+) without a failure. If you decide to widen it, get with Charles at Rocky Mountain Axle, he is the old axle builder from AFWDS. He is in DJ's Shop.

 

[bobdog]

If you are dead set on a dana44 rear I am almost sure you would be money ahead to find one from a part time waggy (Rare but you may get lucky). Take a second look at the waggy model 20s They really are stronger than a dana 44. If the 44 you have is already setup with the gears and locker you want You may want to have it retubed call Charles at Rockymountain axle his pricing is pretty good, but you will have to buy new shafts as well(or do you want to use the TJ shafts?). If you are talking about starting out with just the housing and building from there you really can have a Dana 60 for not a whole lot more (don't be scared off by the prices Dynatrac, Currie, ect get for them).

 

[BlackSheep]

Part of the narrow width is aesthetics (geez - spelling????), but part of it is stability. And, the final part is concerned with the tire coming in contact with stuff I don't want it to come in contact with.

Until I can afford a trailer, I'll still be driving this to and from the playspots.

Maybe having a slightly narrower axle won't make any difference, but I just have a thing about using wheel spacers or adapters.

Charles at RM Axle is who I spoke with. He is the one that suggested I go with lengthening the tubes. I think I was surprised to hear him say cut and re-weld. I was thinking the common practice was to completely pull the tube and replace it. Obviously I was wrong.

He was already recommended by 2 people, now at least two more are recommending him. I guess I can't go wrong with him.

On another note, I found a Waggy D44 rear from a '86 GW. It is in a scrap yard and they want $250 for it. I just think a single tube is going to be stronger than a welded tube.

Regardless of what housing I start with, I still have to get the TJ bracketry welded on. And, in the end, the costs will be about the same.

I'll be building the axle up from the housing with a spool (maybe that new detroit e-locker), full floater axles and disc brakes, so all I really need to start with is a housing of the correct width.

thanks for the feedback.

 

[BlackSheep]

Originally posted by bobdog
Take a second look at the waggy model 20s They really are stronger than a dana 44.

I thought the amc20 had a less than strong tube? I blew it, I could have had one from the same rig I got the front D44 from. I guess it might still be available

If the 44 you have is already setup with the gears and locker you want You may want to have it retubed call Charles at Rockymountain axle his pricing is pretty good,

Don't know exactly what gears are in the 44 I have, and I don't think it has a locker in it (near as I know, stock scout). All of it will be purchased and custom built.

but you will have to buy new shafts as well(or do you want to use the TJ shafts?). If you are talking about starting out with just the housing and building from there you really can have a Dana 60 for not a whole lot more (don't be scared off by the prices Dynatrac, Currie, ect get for them).

I heard the 60 weighs in at about 200# more than the 44. Does it matter? I know it is a stronger axle. I'd like to say I'll never go more than 35" tires, but I've already learned not to say never when talking about mods to my rig.

jd

 

[Economos]

As mentioned before, most factory 4x4s run a wider front axle than the rear, it gets better tracking. IMHO, 2.5" isn't even near enough of a difference to worry about. FYI, EB rear 9" are 3" narrower than the front 44s (pre '71s had D30 fronts). But you've got another problem that you might not have noticed yet.

Scout bolt patterns are 5x5.5 and Waggies are 6x5.5, so in order to run these axles, you're either gonna have to run two sets of wheels (not a great idea) or have some custom spacers built that will fix the width problem as well as convert your bolt pattern to match the front. Go to www.mountainoffroad.com and search around on their site. You'll be able to order whatever kind of spacers/ bolt pattern adapters you want from there. Waggies are about 61" wide, Scouts are 58.5", so get a set of 3/4" spacers for either side that will also convert your pattern to 6x5.5. That will make your rear width 60" wide and the front 61" which should be nearly perfect.

As for the 60, I wouldn't even think about buying a built 60 until I combed through the junkyards. Most places have D60s all day long for$125, but you'll quickly change your mind when you see the size of one up close and not under a rig. If you're only planning in the area of 35s or a tad bigger, your D44s should be more than enough. Also, most junkyard D60s you'll find will have the 30 spline shafts, a super high gear ratio, HUGE drum brakes (discs are more than easy to convert, will reduce the weight dramatically) and are semi-float, most will be full width too. Some early F-100s run a 60" wide D60 rear, but its got small bearing ends, high gears and is a semi float.

HTH.

 

[BlackSheep]

Originally posted by Economos
Go to www.mountainoffroad.com and search around on their site. You'll be able to order whatever kind of spacers/ bolt pattern adapters you want from there. HTH.

at $100/pair for wheel spacers, I think I'd be better off to go buy that rear GW axle and pay charles to weld the brackets on it.

that would pretty much put my mind to rest.

jd

 

[bobdog]

It is the CJ 20s that are weak the FSJ ones are fine. Does the 86 have a 44 or is it a 20? As to the 44 vs 60 thing yes they are larger and heavier but I can't beleive that you would rather have the 44. I like the peice of mind that my 60 gives me, and I think I would worry If I had a 44. When you are talking about putting a axle together from scratch I do not think you would spend to much more going the 60 route. Compare the prices of everything you will need Locker or spool(you can find 60 spools used much easier than 44s) shafts, gears, and the bare housing. The labor will be the same for both axles and the other stuff wil not cost that much more. Just looking at FWPW ad the detroit is only $11 more for the 60, gears are about $30 more. 35 spline shafts will be more than the 30s but look at them side by side and then decide which ones you want in your jeep. Also don't overlook the 9" if you are going full custom, They can be built very strong (some say stronger than a 60 with less weight than a 44).

 

[Economos]

Yeah, the CJ 20s are pretty weak, but the FSJs are somewhat better in strength. I would suggest that you truss the housing though. If you want the Waggy rear 44s, look for the '87s-'91s (???) I believe. This has been my problem; I've found slews of older Waggies running all non-disco front 44 housings, but all had AMC 20 rears. I'm dead-set on f/r 44s, so I'm passing till I find my rear compliment.

 

[BlackSheep]

Yeah, the GW axle I found is a 44. The recycle yards call it a 10 bolt.

How much ground clearance will I be losing if I go to a 60 vs a 44? It is likely I won't install the axles until I get the 35" tires, but I don't want to be concerned with clearance issues.

bobdog, what size tires are you running? As far as 60 vs 44, the 44 listed above is already the proper length. I'll spend in the neighborhood of $100 getting the brackets welded on. Total cost of D44 housing with TJ brackets ready to build....about $350

Charles wants that much to lengthen and add brackets to the scout axle. Either way, for $350, I'm ready to start building my D44.

If I decide on a 60, I'll still have to pay $350 to shorten and add brackets without the cost of the housing.

If I can find a $100 (or so) D60 housing, it wouldn't be too bad, but I'm not sure I'll be able to find that. I'll have to do some searching.

Something about D44s front and rear just appeal to me. However, you've got me thinking. Good thing I'm in no hurry to get my rig upgraded.

jd

 

[bobdog]

My tires are 35s (I think I will go to 36s in the spring) and I have 11" at the bottom of the diff(I have not ground off the lip on the bottom but it looks like I could get 3/8" easy. I don't know what a 44 would measure but the ring gear is only 1" smaller so I would not think it would be a whole lot smaller. If you can get a 44 the right size and do not have to buy shafts you will spend a lot less than if you build a 44 or a 60 and have to buy custom shafts. Earlier you wrote that you wanted full floater setup if so the costs become more comparable.

 

[BlackSheep]

Originally posted by bobdog
My tires are 35s (I think I will go to 36s in the spring) and I have 11" at the bottom of the diff(I have not ground off the lip on the bottom but it looks like I could get 3/8" easy. I don't know what a 44 would measure but the ring gear is only 1" smaller so I would not think it would be a whole lot smaller. If you can get a 44 the right size and do not have to buy shafts you will spend a lot less than if you build a 44 or a 60 and have to buy custom shafts.

that is part of why I'm looking at 44s. No matter what, the axle will be either the width of a TJ, or the width of a late '80s GWag. This will keep me in 'off the shelf' parts. I prefer this because I don't want to break something, and not be able to get new parts.

I'm going to call the scrap yard that has the waggy 44 tomorrow.

jd

 

[Economos]

FYI, 60 covers hang down 1" further than D44 covers. You can safely take the housing down about 1/2" before you get to the cover. If you shave into the cover, you'll have to weld up some steel on the cover and a little bit on the housing to add strength. If you go crazy and "Pro-Rock" it, you'll have to weld up the housing with some steel plate and mill the ring gear, then add a lil bit to the cover.

IMHO, shaved 60s would be AWESOME, but a D44 will be more than enough. And a shaved D44 will be getting you back to where your D30/ 35 left you in the clearance department.