Ford Build: Full hydro is for quitters

[Ashcat]

To get this thread started I’m going to refer to this buggy as the WiscoBuilt Missabe buggy. They say be careful not to party too hard at KOH otherwise you won’t party on thanksgiving Hammers. Something like that. Well this buggy is a crossbreed of 4400 pedigree. The name comes from the region I work in.

The 4500 F-150 build has been moth-balled for the time being.

The Missabe was to be built after the 4500 returned to Hammers. Priorities have been repositioned moving the timeline up on this build. Originally (ultimately will be) this buggy was for my wife and daughter to tag along on our wheelin trips while I did stupid stuff on the trail. Simple minimalistic, Ford 2.3 ohc, auto and one tons but a V-8 is more bald eagles per slice of peppered bacon.

This build should progress pretty quick. Goal is an Iron Range shakedown by seasons end 2021 and Hammers after that.

Kickin it off with a pile of steel today.
90’ 1-3/4 x .120
20’ 2 x .188 sqaure
10’ 2 x .250 square
5’ 2-1/2 x .375 strap
60 odd feet of 1-1/4 & 1-1/2 .120 & .095
Pile of sheet metal for tabs and gussets

 

[I Lean]

Watching...

 

[Bart]

Subscribed

 

[Ashcat]

For now here’s the general specs

302-NP435-NWF Titan-NP205
D60 D70
37 Toyos on 17 steelies 4.5 bs
117.5 WB
19 belly (to accommodate 40s in the future)

As Mentioned this build is a result of refocusing my efforts and getting back on the trail. I was watching the busted knuckle corona coverage and have had enough sitting on the sidelines. I haul taconite right past the park (Gilbert) so the itch to check out the Mn wheelin scene is growing.

As to the thread title.......

White/orange/purple santa delivered this hot mess from Texas today. Nope, def not an orbital

I’m excited about the steering. This gear is from a 93 Lincoln Town car. Suppose to be a quicker ratio than the trucks. I’ll verify it against the late 70s F-150 gear I have on the shelf. It’ll remain inboard the frame and utilize a single swing set. The control valve will receive all of my modifications and have internal piston stops. Lots of cool geometry to follow. Should result in quicker, stronger steering and no travel limits like the 4500 steering. (Which pushed boulders aside) I’ll address specific comparisons from the old design to this when I get that far.

The sketches I have of the chassis look dumb and nothing like what’s in my imagination so be patient. Should have the sub frame cut out and tacked up on my next rest days. Once the axles and drivetrain are in place I should be able to slay tube pretty quick after that.

 

[Hickey]

I kinda miss my NP435. Jeep would ugga dugga over rocks real good with that compound. I had it behind my 289.

 

[Vonski]

Plenty of coloring outside the lines. 🤘 Following.

 

[Ashcat]

I tried getting with the automatic program for this and future builds. Didn’t feel like going down that rabbit hole on short notice. I like the 435 and it’s worked really well crawling and racing.

Someday I’d like the convenience of an auto and the shock load dampening. I would only entertain a divorced t case config and I’d want the so called engine braking and whatever witch craft necessary to complete a legit transmission.

 

[Ashcat]

Just got off work and decided to push the proportions around on paper some more. It looks closer to what I have pictured. Just had to get western with the eraser and rowdy with the pencil until it started to make sense.

Should be 73” at the roof with 7” front bump travel and 8-9” in the rear. Undecided on 54” inside or outside the door bar.

Door bar is undecided as well. Can’t race without a permanent close to horizontal bar. I’m thinking hinged tube doors for now. Alternative would be a permanent swoopy door bar. Idk. The M&M #27 buggy has a swoopy door that I don’t mind. I don’t like red dot doors.

 

[Ashcat]

I’ve got the best wife ever

She loves sand hollow and JV more than myself. She sends memes like this

 

[Ashcat]

Steering gear is confirmed quicker ratio than its truck counterpart. :smokin:

3.25 lock to lock compared to just ever so slightly more than 4.

 

[YROC FAB.]

Steering gear is confirmed quicker ratio than its truck counterpart. :smokin:

3.25 lock to lock compared to just ever so slightly more than 4.

So why not full hydro? i understand the mechanical steering was needed for the rules of the race class for your 4500 racer.

 

[Ashcat]

I’ve developed a simple flow chart to answer your question

I’m not interested in full hydro v <—
V————————————<
.
.
.
v
I’m not familiar with orbitals ———^

I like mechanical action. Linkages, moving parts and the geometry involved is what I enjoy tinkering with.

For the most part, sure, full hydro works great but when it doesn’t...........

The projected budget of this build is around $1k utilizing everything I already have. It’s also an R&D platform.

 

[RockChucker]

@Ashcat I'm with you...I like mechanical linkages. And I'm going about doing steering not the easy way for sure. Watching this. I'd like to see what you did on your 4500 car too. Didn't see much detail on it in your 4500 build thread.

 

[Ashcat]

@Ashcat I'm with you...I like mechanical linkages. And I'm going about doing steering not the easy way for sure. Watching this. I'd like to see what you did on your 4500 car too. Didn't see much detail on it in your 4500 build thread.

I’ll dig up the pictures and explain it. My 4500 wasn’t revolutionary but I went to great lengths to eliminate bump steer by carefully designing the front geometry. Once that cycled perfect I documented the piston travel and had piston stops machined so everything stopped simultaneously. Knuckles, piston and assist cyl. The assist cyl was placed at full extension and was externally limited while retracted. I mildly ported the control valve housing and made revisions to my assist cyl placement utilizing some JHF wisdom. The newest version has an extremely modified spool valve and new assist cyl support but is untested. The pump is a psc whatever big dog TC pump. Can’t remember specs or model off the top of my head. The steering was great-ish. Only 3/16” of deviation measured side to side in the travel arc so essentially zero bump steer. While it was fast enough etc, I had odd dead spots, well that’s not the correct way to label it but full system lock when the tires were wedged when dropping off a water fall maybe. I’m thinking caster scrub radius type of voodoo. The front of the tire is 90* off the contact patch or KP inclination. Not sure if it was a system fault or just physics.

 

[Ashcat]

This post really isn’t worth much but maybe it’s of some entertainment of what’s going on in the shop and my head. Only 1 day off so that killed production but I’m armed with all the info needed to start whackin tube

The subframe is gem shaped to cut weight and makes for equal length link brackets. This helps expedite production. It’s to be constructed of 2” x .250” square with a removable/drop-out 1.5” x .120” dom lacing structure. I’m designing this entire drivetrain to drop from the bottom. Engine can go either way......fully assembled, headers + accessories. The lacing will attach and pull together the subframe utilizing 6- 5/8 bolts. Not sure how to describe it but the rails will have 1.5 dom frenched horizontally with 3/8 end plates. The lacing will have 5/8 tube adapters welded in. Seen in the life size chalk drawing the skid plate will attach in four corners utilizing the same frenched tube and threaded gusset. Idea borrowed from YROC Fab or McGees Fab Lab or whatever he dba. Lol

Link brackets to be dropped from 3/8 plate. Skid will be 3/8 also.



Cracked open the new gear. Incredibly clean. Like brand new from the foundry/machine shop clean inside and out. I’m curious what the car looked like. Notice the difference in revolutions or spacing between flutes in the ball race. That’s where your steering ratio comes from. The control valves on the left are from 80+ truck boxes. They’re utilized to reverse the pitman arm on late 70s 1/2 ton truck steering gears as I have done to my 77. Passenger and 76-79 F-150/bronco valves are on the right.

***pro-tip*** for quicker steering in your late 70s Ford 1/2 ton, swap in the piston+valve assembly from any Ford passenger gear. You’re welcome.


Passenger, 80+ truck casting on left compared to 76-79 F-150/Bronco on right

I’ll provide more detailed component photos and specs/tech as I dig into this control valve for modification. I have most of them on my phone of the red valve pictured but no specs available.

 

[Ashcat]

And so a buggy is born

 

[Ashcat]

Link tabs were made today

3/8 x 2-1/2

To make quick work of duplicate tabs I make these “billets”. Note the offset hole, it was also drilled 3/4 to match the radius in the square tube. There will be a lot more 3/4 radius magic later in the build

My rme workshop mess contribution


WB looks to be 115-116 as planned. #fordty500 was 117.5 I’m trying to make something fairly nimble by trimming dimensions everywhere I can. Someday I’d entertain rear steer so I can be like the cool sand hollow kids.
12” belly @ bump 19” @ ride (20” on DDDD)
7” front up travel 8-9” rear up travel (target)

 

[Ashcat]

Stopped by the local hardware that has $h*t for bolts....Grantsville carried G8 coarse AND fine thread up to 1”. Can’t find that around here.

I looked hard enough and lucked out. Found they have plenty of thread choices and shoulder lengths for racecarererery activities. Umm rock crawler activities.



Busted out the old trusty race spec HF precision twisty thingamafawker and got to work. Now that 1/2” drive in the picture has cut it’s fair share of threads over the years. We’re talking it dates back to CSK days and many trail wheelin parkin lot fabrication sessions in Wyoming. I’d shear spring pack bolts and waste u bolts every time we’d go out to party.


I love the HF racing precision thread maker things. They’ve got you covered on and off the track with thread chasin panty droppin custom fastener making capabilities up to 1” NC & NF

It went well but tedious. Note that I cut the coarse threads off with 1 pitch remaining. I used this for the tool to bite and feed the shank straight. I was very conservative on how hard each cut was. Then I’d back it out clean with compressed air, lube and repeat. I was impatient and greedy a couple times and called some of the dies teeth but still had a great result.


This bolt is for the frame side panhard bracket. 7/8 -14 x 1-1/2” mounting width. I’ll hack up this tube adapter and slug one side of the bracket with it. I buy these adapters from an Arizona eBay machine shop and mostly utilize them for anything needing a recessed thread/weld washer because they’re blunt.

Once I get the PH brackets cut in the next couple of days the application and packaging will become more clear.

 

[Ashcat]

Made it this far tonight. 43 somethin pieces all made from scratch and tacked together. Rockers and rear floor/B pillar support tomorrow with a new panhard and brackets hopefully. Last picture is the frenched bolt pockets I mentioned before.

 

[Ashcat]

Panhard brackets as of 1-20. Packing up shop and moving again. Long after the death of ultra4 we’ll return.