CircleTrack coils and stolen ideas.....
- Thread starter Greg
- Start date
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
Do you think the axle would try to 'walk' underneath, if the arms are nearly flat? Plus, a Track Bar.....
Originally posted by Herzog
I don't know if this has showed up here or not, but the Rubicon Express JJ's are now $35 instead of $50.
That might save some money...
NICE!! Thanks, Shane!
- Location
- South Carolina....no public land
With this in mind, why is it that the long arm systems I've seen use such a short link (most seem to be the upper link tying into the lower link)?
Seems like clearance is of some concern, but what else?
S
sukaB
Guest
Yah I have plenty of used and new spring assortments....
COORS
stock tj springs are good for 12 pack but aftermarket good used ones are good for a case a piece or so.........Be generous cause we are..............
I would like to think my four link setup is about as simple as it get's as far ease goes.
Four links are very difficult but once you spend time learning them then they are very simple to build and adjust and make work differently.
I've never been a fan of three links -to much stress located at one point..Plus I've seen to many people design them and they still fail..Jason Paule's buggies-he's my boy!!!!! I think he can build some things that threaten my buggies but at the same time there's some things i don't like that he does. For one THREE links.
How many failed at Supercrawl...5
No names but other people around here use them and have tons of trouble with them.....I think three links are easy so dudes use them to get it out of the shop but my opinion is it's not sound and proper....What does the TJ run from the Factory..............
COORS
stock tj springs are good for 12 pack but aftermarket good used ones are good for a case a piece or so.........Be generous cause we are..............
I would like to think my four link setup is about as simple as it get's as far ease goes.
Four links are very difficult but once you spend time learning them then they are very simple to build and adjust and make work differently.
I've never been a fan of three links -to much stress located at one point..Plus I've seen to many people design them and they still fail..Jason Paule's buggies-he's my boy!!!!! I think he can build some things that threaten my buggies but at the same time there's some things i don't like that he does. For one THREE links.
How many failed at Supercrawl...5
No names but other people around here use them and have tons of trouble with them.....I think three links are easy so dudes use them to get it out of the shop but my opinion is it's not sound and proper....What does the TJ run from the Factory..............
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
Mostly clearance to the frame.
S
sukaB
Guest
When we first designed our long arm we tested the rubicon long arm with uppers to lower arm and there was no difference as far as flex or bind so we stuck with the stock four link setup.
Ease and simplicity. They say it's for better articulation and there full of ****
Ease and simplicity. They say it's for better articulation and there full of ****
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
Definetely better for unloading on climbs, and that's exactly what you need on obstacles like, Dump bump.
S
sukaB
Guest
What i mean was when I was testing trying to figure out why they actually did that with the uppers it was ease for them and they also stated that it moved better....
Better than what,,,, STOCK
When we put just our long arms on it and left the uppers stock we gained the same they had but saved money for the consumer!!!!!!!!!
Huuummmm
I'm not to sure but everyone has there own ideas and no one is right-right....just all work in different ways....
Better than what,,,, STOCK
When we put just our long arms on it and left the uppers stock we gained the same they had but saved money for the consumer!!!!!!!!!
Huuummmm
I'm not to sure but everyone has there own ideas and no one is right-right....just all work in different ways....
Economos
Slick
- Location
- Coastal NC - a LONG way from UT
Originally posted by Greg
Greg, the radius arm is a proven design, but I don't know if you're gonna want the upper link permanently "fixed" to the lower like that. The JJs will provide some flex, but having the upper and lower solidly fixed with standard rubber bushings at the axle mounts, looks to me like you will hinder a LOT of suspension travel and those bushings will probably be eaten up quite frequently. If you set them up like the RE arms, I think you'd be pretty happy with the way they perform. Or, if you wanted the upper and lower directly in-line with each other, you could set up the brackets much like NAXJA's Beezil did with his XJ.
Milner
formerly "rckcrlr"
- Location
- Hiding behind a camera
Greg, you are talking about a radius arm and trac bar config. I like them especially in frt. Both my EB and Wife's XJ run radius arm set ups I built.
One problem I see is that you need to bring the lower to mate with the upper a lot closer to the end. The closer/shorter the triangle, the more bending force that is applied to the longer arm.
On my EB, both arms are full length and welded together, on the XJ they meet about 1/2 way, but the connect at a rubber bushing (absorbs the bind/bending force.
I have had the radius arm debate over and over, comes down to what YOU like, it is Your rig!!
There is binding built into a radius arm design. It tries to twist the housing. I like some amount of this bind, no need for a sway bar.
As for anti-squat, it is still there, simply put, the steeper the angle of the arms, the more anti-squat. Really is not THAT simple, but basically.
Talk to me Saturday, I am driving the XJ and the EB is in B's garage. I am doing the rear 4 link on it.
Ever consider a 2 link, Rockware style??
I was going to try it, but don't have room.
It is basically one V fix mount to the axle, single joint at the frame with a trac bar.
Simple and seem to work well.
Marc
One problem I see is that you need to bring the lower to mate with the upper a lot closer to the end. The closer/shorter the triangle, the more bending force that is applied to the longer arm.
On my EB, both arms are full length and welded together, on the XJ they meet about 1/2 way, but the connect at a rubber bushing (absorbs the bind/bending force.
I have had the radius arm debate over and over, comes down to what YOU like, it is Your rig!!
There is binding built into a radius arm design. It tries to twist the housing. I like some amount of this bind, no need for a sway bar.
As for anti-squat, it is still there, simply put, the steeper the angle of the arms, the more anti-squat. Really is not THAT simple, but basically.
Talk to me Saturday, I am driving the XJ and the EB is in B's garage. I am doing the rear 4 link on it.
Ever consider a 2 link, Rockware style??
I was going to try it, but don't have room.
It is basically one V fix mount to the axle, single joint at the frame with a trac bar.
Simple and seem to work well.
Marc
Milner
formerly "rckcrlr"
- Location
- Hiding behind a camera
Almost fogot, look at the radius arms on a rover or izuzu, they mnt on the frt and rear of the tube. Put them on top=flat arm, build hefty. More clearance, just as easy to mnt.
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
Economos- I don't think that there needs to be any movement between the 'Y' at the Axle end. The entire arm will twist with the axle, at the Johnny Joint, at the top of the arm. I just don't see too much resistance causing any big problems. Then again, I'm no engineer!
Heres the RRO setup-
And the flex it gets......
Marc- I'd love to check out both your Link setups on Saturday. See you there!
Heres the RRO setup-
And the flex it gets......
Marc- I'd love to check out both your Link setups on Saturday. See you there!
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
..... speaking of possibly bending Links, has anyone see Walker Evans links up close? His links are built super beefy! They take the Tube for the main link, machine a Horizontal slit down both sides, and insert a long piece of flat steel, then weld it up. The flat sticks out about 1/3 of a inch on each side. The inserted steel would add so much to the strenght of link!!
My quick draft of the idea, applied to a Radius Arm-
Attachments
Economos
Slick
- Location
- Coastal NC - a LONG way from UT
Well Greg, after seeing those shots, I don't see why it wouldn't work (massive understatement). Come to think of it, do you happen to have a shot of the frame mounts where the JJs are on that rig? I'm kinda curious to see them up close.
Come to think of it, do you happen to have a shot of the frame mounts where the JJs are on that rig? I'm kinda curious to see them up close.
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
Originally posted by Economos
Well Greg, after seeing those shots, I don't see why it wouldn't work (massive understatement).
Just found one that KINDA shows them.....Look real close!!!
They only use Radius arms on the Front and a 3 Link in the rear. That probably makes a bit of diffrence, flex-wise, but that frontend isn't hurting for wheel travel!
Economos
Slick
- Location
- Coastal NC - a LONG way from UT
No, its definitely got enough travel thats for sure. I'm trying to decide exactly what to do when I swap the Waggy D44s in. I wonder how a fabbed set of radius arms much like those pictured would work on my XJ?
What would be the best arm-end variations?
- rubber at the frame and two HD Aurora heims on the axle mounts?
- rubber at both axle mounts and heim at the frame?
- JJs at both axle mounts, rubber at the frame?
- rubber at both axle mounts, JJ at the frame?
- heims at both axle mounts and at the frame?
What do you guys think? Sorry Greg, not trying to take your thread over.
What would be the best arm-end variations?
- rubber at the frame and two HD Aurora heims on the axle mounts?
- rubber at both axle mounts and heim at the frame?
- JJs at both axle mounts, rubber at the frame?
- rubber at both axle mounts, JJ at the frame?
- heims at both axle mounts and at the frame?
What do you guys think? Sorry Greg, not trying to take your thread over.
S
sukaB
Guest
Travel----Travel boys......
stay simple......you heard it here......
stay simple......you heard it here......
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
I think thats the best compramise for a Street Driven rig. The Rubber/Poly at the axle will eliminate most Road Feedback and the JJ will provide the Twist. Rod Ends on a regularly driven Street Rig scare me, plus they transfer every jolt to the frame.
Hijacking my Thread...... Why I oughta....... It doesn't get anymore simple than 2 Radius arms and a Track Bar!
Economos
Slick
- Location
- Coastal NC - a LONG way from UT
Originally posted by Greg
Actually, upon further examination, I believe that you're right, the rubber on the axle mounts coupled with an RE JJ would be as good as it gets. My front RE JJs aren't disposing of the available travel because of the width of the mounts, they're too narrow to allow the joints to flex completely. SO, if this is how I go, then I'll be sure the frame mounts are wide enough to allow the JJs to completely flex - just a mild observation.
<---- Keeping it simple since '98.
S
sukaB
Guest
You da man....