CJ front axle... build?

[Hickey]

1. Shafts: revolution makes shafts that use the JK 1350 size u joint. Nifty. And basically bulletproof for 35s. Note. These are for tj length shafts. Not sure if they would do custom?

Dana 30 Front Axle Kit w/1350 u-joint - Jeep TJ | Revolution Gear & Axle

Revolution Dana 30 Front Axle Kit uses the large “1350” style u-joint, 4340 Chromoly for Jeep TJ, XJ MADE IN USA!!.Lifetime warranty. | Gears & Axles

www.4lowparts.com

2. A 44 isn’t an upgrade over a 30 in my opinion. Same axle shaft u joint size. When my tj was on 35s with a low pinion 30, 4.56 gears and 4:1 tcase I broke u joints. Never had a problem with the ring and pinion or the actual shaft. Yes the ring and pinion on a 44 are bigger, but probably not necessary for a light flatty on 35s

my $.02

Last year at EJS we asked Revolution about custom lengths. They were not interested in that.

 

[Hickey]

the billavista article says that the CJ 30 inner C will take the Dana 44 knuckle and ball joints, and the CJ 30 C's are the same tube size as the XJ/TJ/YJ C's. Get to work, Greg.

 

[Greg]

1. Shafts: revolution makes shafts that use the JK 1350 size u joint. Nifty. And basically bulletproof for 35s. Note. These are for tj length shafts. Not sure if they would do custom?

Dana 30 Front Axle Kit w/1350 u-joint - Jeep TJ | Revolution Gear & Axle

Revolution Dana 30 Front Axle Kit uses the large “1350” style u-joint, 4340 Chromoly for Jeep TJ, XJ MADE IN USA!!.Lifetime warranty. | Gears & Axles

www.4lowparts.com

2. A 44 isn’t an upgrade over a 30 in my opinion. Same axle shaft u joint size. When my tj was on 35s with a low pinion 30, 4.56 gears and 4:1 tcase I broke u joints. Never had a problem with the ring and pinion or the actual shaft. Yes the ring and pinion on a 44 are bigger, but probably not necessary for a light flatty on 35s

my $.02

It would be awesome to run a 1350 joint, but I don’t know that I can pull it off.

Totally agree on the 44 & 30 strengths, I have a set of Longfield 270x joints I picked up from Carl years ago, if I have some 4130 shafts built to my lenght by Moser then I'd be set!

 

[Greg]

the billavista article says that the CJ 30 inner C will take the Dana 44 knuckle and ball joints, and the CJ 30 C's are the same tube size as the XJ/TJ/YJ C's. Get to work, Greg.

Yep!

 

[Gravy]

...

2. A 44 isn’t an upgrade over a 30 in my opinion. Same axle shaft u joint size. When my tj was on 35s with a low pinion 30, 4.56 gears and 4:1 tcase I broke u joints. Never had a problem with the ring and pinion or the actual shaft. Yes the ring and pinion on a 44 are bigger, but probably not necessary for a light flatty on 35s

my $.02

The only thing is ujoint size is only one piece of the puzzle. Every single other component is better.

30 spline inners are stronger than 27 spline. Especially in the aftermarket. 30 spline outers are an OEM option on scouts too.
Balljoints and unit bearings were failure points for me with 35s and d30 axle tubes turn to smiley faces when I jumped them. Least we forget bigger tires need bigger brakes we can see loads of guys here on RME tossing big brakes on their d30s.
Super joints handle joint strength.

I've been down this road a few times. My current d30 is a hybrid

 

[Greg]

The only thing is ujoint size is only one piece of the puzzle. Every single other component is better.

30 spline inners are stronger than 27 spline. Especially in the aftermarket. 30 spline outers are an OEM option on scouts too.
Balljoints and unit bearings were failure points for me with 35s and d30 axle tubes turn to smiley faces when I jumped them. Least we forget bigger tires need bigger brakes we can see loads of guys here on RME tossing big brakes on their d30s.
Super joints handle joint strength.

I've been down this road a few times. My current d30 is a hybrid

Since this is under a light weight Flatty with 'small' 35's, my needs aren't the same of others running Dana 30's.

That Billivista article mentions that the CJ knuckles will slip onto a XJ Dana 30 and allow for Dana 44 ball joints. And I'd get away from unit bearings, which is a huge plus.

Brennan Metcalf has been successfully running a Dana 30 with 35" Krawlers for years, running hard trails. Those tires are massive and heavy compared to the KM3's I plan to run. He has some upgraded shafts and joints, of course.

Any disc brakes are an upgrade over all drums... and again, light weight is on my side. And this isn't a heavy DD Jeep or something that will see a lot of road miles.

If I can build a front axle with a Dana 30 center, using Dana 44 outer, hubs, ball joints & brakes then I'll have the best of both worlds. You can even buy 30 spline lockers for the Dana 30, for added strength.

 

[Gravy]

Yup, absolutely!
This is how I did my hybrid:
LP D30 TJ housing. 4.56 gears. 30spline ARB Yukon 30 spline 4340 inners and outers (it uses a scout length 30 spline stub).
Spicer 297 ujoints with full circle clips (I'd run super joints if it wasn't a DD that I wanted to be able to use 4hi on the freeway in snowstorms)
Warn 5x5.5" hub conversion. Warn premium lockouts.
Rocky Road high steer conversion (welded to the knuckles)

 

[DaveB]

I have a narrowed Chevy 44 that was under my CJ8. Its the same width as the later Waggy 44. It is low pinion but the knuckles have been rotated for better caster angle and higher pinion.

 

[bryson]

What's the benefit of the Scout length stub? I get the 30 spline upgrade (vs. stock 27 spline scout, or stock 19 spline everything else...) but I can't figure out another benefit. 30 spline stubs are surely available in whatever length you want, aren't they?

Why so stuck on a 30 front when a 44 front would be easier, cheaper and faster? Weight savings is minimal, and clearance isn't that different either. I'm not saying the 30 won't work the way you want it to, but I'm not sure why you seem so against a 44?

 

[Hickey]

What's the benefit of the Scout length stub? I get the 30 spline upgrade (vs. stock 27 spline scout, or stock 19 spline everything else...) but I can't figure out another benefit. 30 spline stubs are surely available in whatever length you want, aren't they?

Why so stuck on a 30 front when a 44 front would be easier, cheaper and faster? Weight savings is minimal, and clearance isn't that different either. I'm not saying the 30 won't work the way you want it to, but I'm not sure why you seem so against a 44?

Because he wants a high pinion, and Dana 44 high pinions are pretty scarce.

 

[Greg]

What's the benefit of the Scout length stub? I get the 30 spline upgrade (vs. stock 27 spline scout, or stock 19 spline everything else...) but I can't figure out another benefit. 30 spline stubs are surely available in whatever length you want, aren't they?

Why so stuck on a 30 front when a 44 front would be easier, cheaper and faster? Weight savings is minimal, and clearance isn't that different either. I'm not saying the 30 won't work the way you want it to, but I'm not sure why you seem so against a 44?

Because he wants a high pinion, and Dana 44 high pinions are pretty scarce.

As well as the sheer size of the housing, things are already going to be tight with a 53" wide axle, leaf springs and a low lift height. The Dana 30 housing itself will fit better.

And I can get a Dana 30 for $50.... versus around $500 for a HP 44. (stupid price for a 44, but I can't find a cheaper one).

 

[Gravy]

What's the benefit of the Scout length stub? I get the 30 spline upgrade (vs. stock 27 spline scout, or stock 19 spline everything else...) but I can't figure out another benefit. 30 spline stubs are surely available in whatever length you want, aren't they?

Why so stuck on a 30 front when a 44 front would be easier, cheaper and faster? Weight savings is minimal, and clearance isn't that different either. I'm not saying the 30 won't work the way you want it to, but I'm not sure why you seem so against a 44?

No other reason but the oem Scout stub the location on the snap ring groove makes it fit the Yukon/ Warn spindle. And it's shortest by about an inch so it makes a narrower package and puts the ujoint in the right place without cutting.

 

[bryson]

Dana 44 axle housing

$75.00 Dana 44 axle housing for sale in Logan, UT on KSL Classifieds. View a wide selection of Rock Crawler Parts and other great items on KSL Classifieds.

classifieds.ksl.com

Apparently I internet better than you guys... This took me less than 30 seconds to find on KSL. $75.

I understand the price if you're looking for a JK HPD44, but that seems silly to waste that kind of money on a JK axle when you're just going to cut it up. HP Ford 44s from the late 70s are not hard to find...

 

[Greg]

Dana 44 axle housing

$75.00 Dana 44 axle housing for sale in Logan, UT on KSL Classifieds. View a wide selection of Rock Crawler Parts and other great items on KSL Classifieds.

classifieds.ksl.com

Apparently I internet better than you guys... This took me less than 30 seconds to find on KSL. $75.

I understand the price if you're looking for a JK HPD44, but that seems silly to waste that kind of money on a JK axle when you're just going to cut it up. HP Ford 44s from the late 70s are not hard to find...

I've looked for Ford HP 44 locally for months and haven't seen any deals like that... wish I were closer!

This is all I find in my neighborhood... https://westslope.craigslist.org/pts/d/montrose-d44-hp-1-2-housing-77-f250/7160037208.html

 

[bryson]

Last few times I've been in the wrecking yard there's been at least one HP44 that's ripe for the picking too. IIRC, the yard price without any sales/discounts is ~$150 for a front axle.

 

[DaveB]

Dana 44 axle housing

$75.00 Dana 44 axle housing for sale in Logan, UT on KSL Classifieds. View a wide selection of Rock Crawler Parts and other great items on KSL Classifieds.

classifieds.ksl.com

Apparently I internet better than you guys... This took me less than 30 seconds to find on KSL. $75.

I understand the price if you're looking for a JK HPD44, but that seems silly to waste that kind of money on a JK axle when you're just going to cut it up. HP Ford 44s from the late 70s are not hard to find...

The one listed on KSL was for a 78 F150 axle. If you noticed they didn't show any pictures of the driver's side of the axle because those axles have the radius arm mount cast into the center section making it very difficult to shorten on that side. 76-77 F150 are good to go as are some of the older ones. I have a 75 F150 axle in my garage that I had to buy to replace the one I borrowed for my Scrambler swap. It was a drum brake setup but my son only bought the housing since we will be changing all of the outer stuff. 78-79 F250 axles that are for leaf springs are stronger but the spring perch is cast into the center section also. You can modify the perch if needed. My son's Comanche has the 78 F250 axle.

 

[Greg]

Well, @Gravy gets the nod for the easiest way to do this, if I can make it work. I really wanted to do the HP D30 for reasons mentioned above, but this will be easier.

I picked up a GM Dana 44 from a '70 GMC Jimmy for $100. It came with drum brakes, but that doesn't matter as I'll be putting Ford hubs and disc brakes on for a matching 5 x 5 1/2" bolt pattern.

It's low pinion of course, but I won't have to swap tubes, etc. I did come with flat top knuckles, not sure that I'll be able to use them for high steer though! I'm still worried about how well the housing will fit in place, because it's substantially larger than the D30. I measured the CJ narrow track Dana 30 and compared it to the GM Dana 44, the housing is a couple inches wider and with how it sits, I'll probably have to weld the spring perch onto the housing on the passenger side. The housing is wider on the passenger side, due to the cast in spring perch. From ball joint to ball joint, the GM D44 is 12" wider than the Dana 30! The GM D44 has 2 3/4" OD axle tubes.

So the plan is to chop the inner knuckles off, shorten the tubes just the right amount, press on the knuckles and weld them in place. I tore it down to a bare housing, still need to cut/torch off shock mounts, spring perch, etc.

 

[I Lean]

I like this plan!

Do yourself a favor and make the new axle wider than you're currently planning.

 

[Greg]

I like this plan!

Do yourself a favor and make the new axle wider than you're currently planning.

I was thinking about that today honestly, but wondering how much is too much? The stock 2A axles are 50 1/2" wide.... the narrow track CJ axles are 53" wide. I'll be pairing this D44 with a AMC 20 that's 53" wide. So 55-56" wide? 56" means 1 1/2" per side, which shouldn't be too noticeable.

 

[Hickey]

I've done this a few times now. If it were me, I would cut it to dimensions that allowed you to run off the shelf inner axle shafts. I would also do as Carl suggested. Mix and match some inners to get you around 58" WMS. I know Waggy axles come in a 59" flavor, but you will have to outboard the springs with a Waggy. Actually, I think a scout is 58" and that looks too wide for this build. 56" and call it good.