It seems to me that everyone gives industry a pass when they affect our trails in a negative way (don't get me wrong I have always made my living off of heavy extractive industry, mining in one way or another) but, how would everyone react if the siera club had done the same thing so that they could get their Subarus up the trail to observe the mating dance of the endangered clifhanger stink bugs?
Cliffhanger Trail is now Subaru rated?
- Thread starter XJEEPER
- Start date
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
bobdog said:
IF they did it through the same channels, I'm not sure if we could have any different opinion or not. I still wouldn't like it just cuz, I don't think the endangered cliffhanger neo-stink bugs pose any great ecological contribution to the overall ecosystem. It seems to me the ecosystem in the area is pretty functional and I rarely (if ever) see a Sierra club member on the trails. {I think you're right, though--Is it simply because they are in the 'land-user' camp instead of the 'don't use the land because it fragile' camp that we tend to think of them as allies?}
bobdog said:
It sounded like they would at least make an attempt to restore the trail to the way they found it. (we all know that's not really possible, but I applaud the effort) The same cannot be said for someone 'paving' a trail for the underequipped (driver or rig).
greenjeep
Cause it's green, duh!
- Location
- Moab Local!
cruiseroutfit said:
I know Scott McFarland, who currently owns the property, and I wouldn't worry too much about it.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
greenjeep said:
Thats what I thought.. he makes his money off of using the lift as well as the Mtn bike, trials, & 4x4 events he hopes to hold there... paving a road doesn't make any sense. I would like to hear more about all this.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
bobdog said:
No, sounds like he has good sources... I just read the article over on NAXJA BB. Sounds like the new owner is bankrupt and the Natures Conservency is considering it a purchase... This will be interesting...
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
bobdog said:Now that is scary
My thoughts too, however... the trail should be completely covered under RS2477 & the 10yr State Statute... but it will cost money and time to fight.
yellowbronco
Cuts Through Grease !!!
- Location
- Moab
Did you ever go check out Cliffhanger? We just went across the creek on T-day weekend.greenjeep said:
The Cliffhanger deal is nothing I'm concerned about. The trail exists to access the pipeline in the first place & they are allowed to do whatever they need to to access the pipeline. The fact that they allow the general public to also use the road is nothing more than a bonus to us. I have every confidence that it will be as tough a trail as it ever was by next summer.
Th Moab Rim deal could become something of an issue though. The Nature Conservancy is seriously considering buying the property, if they do the chairlift will be dismantled. No great loss there, it hasn't even operated for more than a year & the vast majority of people are completely unaware of that fact. What happens to the Moab Rim trail has not been addressed as far as I am aware. I'm waiting to hear what the intention is going to be concerning the trail.
Th Moab Rim deal could become something of an issue though. The Nature Conservancy is seriously considering buying the property, if they do the chairlift will be dismantled. No great loss there, it hasn't even operated for more than a year & the vast majority of people are completely unaware of that fact. What happens to the Moab Rim trail has not been addressed as far as I am aware. I'm waiting to hear what the intention is going to be concerning the trail.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
bobdog said:
No, only portions of the land that the trail crosses (the upper part of the actual rim near the lifts). RS2477 and State Statutes should resolve any question on legality on the issue. But, sadly the greenies will take it to court wasting precious time and money of our resources (RR4W, BRC, Usa-All, etc)
PUBLIC ACCESS TO PUBLIC LANDS
cruiseroutfit said:
You're referring to Moab Rim. My comment was about Cliffhanger, which originally was not a publicly owned trail. It's original purpose was as a utility right of way access road. If you've ever seen the powerlines that cut through the forest with interesting roads following them that you can't get to, you know what I mean here. Cliffhanger trail is a more recent use of the road, it's original purpose was only for construction and maintenance of the gas pipeline, and maintenance still has priority access, so whining about the makers of the road exercising their rights to use the road is pointless. We should be happy they ever let us use it in the first place & be even happier that they are going to attempt to return it to the condition it was in before they had to alter it for their purposes. By the graces of the pipeline owners the public has been allowed access to the road too, for more than enough time to claim it as a public road, probably, who really knows when the utility ROW is involved?. The owners of the pipeline, originally Texas Gulf, currently Moab Salt, are not nearly as forthcoming about the public using the utility roads on their mining properties across the river.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Rick B said:
My bad, I was referring to Moab Rim. I agree, our use on Cliffhanger is nothing less than a blessing, however though the road was built for the industry, they DO NOT own 100% of the road nor the land that is accessed by the road. Most of the trails in Moab (and the entire State of Utah) were built by industry and piggy-backed by recreationalists. Laws protect us in that manner.
greenjeep
Cause it's green, duh!
- Location
- Moab Local!
yellowbronco said:
A group of us locals ran the trail yesterday, and the pictures are a very good indication of the trail's conditions.
It is definitely much easier, but it is no cake walk. There are still a lot of bumps and small rocks, but the big ledges have been smoothed out. We were talking about it and we guessed the altered part of the trail is now probably between a 3 and a 3 1/2.
As of right now, the cliff-side obstacle is still there, but it will have to be changed to access the pipeline.
All-in-all, it was not as changed as I was worried it would be. It isn't the same as it was, but give it some time and I think it will regain it's former glory!
yellowbronco
Cuts Through Grease !!!
- Location
- Moab
I wonder if they will have to change the cliff obstacle? We were up there on Dec. 28 and it was still the same from the start of the shelf road on. Maybe the section the are working on is by the psm overlook?greenjeep said:
greenjeep
Cause it's green, duh!
- Location
- Moab Local!
At the RR4W meeting yesterday we were told that tyhe cliff-side obstacle WILL NOT BE CHANGED. The Moab Salt Co. has decided to follow the pipeline down from the top of the mesa rather than fill in the cliff obstacle and drive in along the cliff.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
From the RR4W Newsletter:
"Cliffhanger permitted access work is now done, it is said to be about a level 3 at this time, but should return to the more difficult challenges with enough weathering"
Cool...
"Cliffhanger permitted access work is now done, it is said to be about a level 3 at this time, but should return to the more difficult challenges with enough weathering"
Cool...