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Cody Gone Wild

Cody

Cody

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Location
Gastown
glockman said:
Hawt damn. @Cody penetrated the Zion curtain. I picked up some bewildered at the PG liquor store. This gecko finger is
Pretty damned good and I don't usually like IPAs. View attachment 159676
Click to expand...
A lot went into making that beer as drinkable as it is. We're proud of it. If it's not at your liquor store tell them to carry it. If it's not at your favorite bar or restaurant tell them to get it.
 
nnnnnate

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
Cody said:
A lot went into making that beer as drinkable as it is. We're proud of it. If it's not at your liquor store tell them to carry it. If it's not at your favorite bar or restaurant tell them to get it.
Click to expand...
Will you explain that a bit? The "a lot went into making that as drinkable as it is" part. I'm curious to know how long it takes to develop a new drink and kind of what goes into that. Test runs, taste tests, etc. Who develops it, is that you or do you have a guy that does that? How long does it take from concept to shelf? I don't partake but I think it's interesting and would like to know more.

(Like how Dr pepper just came out with their new strawberry and cream flavor. šŸ™„šŸ˜)
 
Cody

Cody

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Location
Gastown
nnnnnate said:
Will you explain that a bit? The "a lot went into making that as drinkable as it is" part. I'm curious to know how long it takes to develop a new drink and kind of what goes into that. Test runs, taste tests, etc. Who develops it, is that you or do you have a guy that does that? How long does it take from concept to shelf? I don't partake but I think it's interesting and would like to know more.

(Like how Dr pepper just came out with their new strawberry and cream flavor. šŸ™„šŸ˜)
Click to expand...

Hmm, lots to go over too ha ha. I personally think double IPA's get a bad rap, mostly because there have been so many of them that were so shitty for so long...particularly in Utah. Utah's #1 selling beer in the liquor store (utah brand (well, now owned by Monster, but whatever)) is Hop Rising, and that beer was a bad example of what was then a modern example of a IIPA in the early 2000's. Its cheap and high ABV so people have been sucking it down by the boat load for years and it's unfortunately become the standard by which most Utah drinkers compare other IIPA's. If it's not better at being Hop Rising than Hop Rising, then it's not good enough. The thing is, that beer sucks. They know it. Every brewer in Utah knows it. Every beer judge in Utah knows it. But it sells. Then came Elephino, which is pretty good....for an IPA made in the early 2010's. Ferda is a good IPA that's a bit more modern, but still nothing magical. IPA is CONSTANTLY evolving and a world class IPA from 10 years ago is nothing like what is considered world class today. None of the famous IPA's are the same as they were 10 years ago or more...not pliney, not blind pig, not stone ipa, etc etc.

The higher the hop load on a beer, the higher the "perceived" sweetness is. That is, there is no actual increase in sugar content, but modern hops have such big tropical characteristics, that those fruitier notes are perceived to the drinker as sweetness. Then, higher alcohol beers naturally have higher final gravity...that is a higher amount of residual sugar that remains after fermentation. And alcohol is also sweet. So you have sweet on sweet on sweet and that's not a good recipe for a beer that you want to drink a bunch of. Modern IPA's are cutting that sweetness out to increase drinkability.

Modern IPA's and IIPA's (specifically, west coast versions. The hazy/juicy/NEIPA is a different thing entirely and almost the complete antithesis of west coast IPA) have gradually been increasing hop loads, while decreasing the use of crystal malts that are less fermentable (more sweet), and driving final gravities down (dryer beer) so that the beers are crisper, dryer, and hoppier than ever but have more drinkability. The base beer is stripped down so nothing competes with the hops. We wanted to take everything we know about making good hoppy beers and good dry beers, and turn that into an IPA. We already make a world class example of Kolsch, which is probably the driest beer style, and a gold medal winning Hazy IPA..which is probably the hoppiest beer style. So we have lots of tools in our chest...The goal was to produce a high abv (because Utah wants higher abv because they stupidly associate alcohol quantity with beer quality), high IBU, big dry, hoppy and relatively inexpensive IIPA that had very little palate fatigue. We wanted people to want to drink 2 or 3 of them, instead of the one and done that some of these other examples are. IPA shouldn't be a kick in the teeth, it SHOULD be balanced and drinkable.

We had to source some hops that were reasonably priced to keep the cost down, and land on a base grain bill that was reasonably priced...and utilize a yeast strain we have on hand regularly. We created a label for small batch IPA's produced on our pilot system called "brew lab IPA". Our first couple batches came out on that and we got some feedback from a bunch of customers and beer judges and quickly realized that the beer that we envisioned and the beer that customers seemed to want, were not the same beer. We wanted this big, crushable, hoppy IIPA that showcased a modern stripped down grain bill, and incorporated modern fruity hops in addition to more traditional citrus/resin/pine hops that WC IPA's are usually defined by. Customers wanted sweetness and more dank, resinous hops. Ultimately, we decided that we were going to make what we wanted to make...the more modern version of the style and let customers decide if it's for them or not. Eventually, local trends follow national and I think people will learn to appreciate it. IPA shouldn't be a kick in the teeth, and Gecko is so crushable for an almost 9% beer that is 80+ IBU's. Almost all pilsner malt, almost all El Dorado hops, and fermented to dryness with lager yeast instead of ale yeast.

I think that beer is awesome, but some IIPA drinkers don't think it's as hard to drink as it should be. Why anyone would take pride in a beer being tough to drink is beyond me. That beer is approachable even for people that don't like big hoppy beers, and you can drink a couple of them...if you dare. But it's definitely not what many people here would expect when they think of a double west coast IPA.

I hope that rambling word vomit made some sense.
 
Tonkaman

Tonkaman

Well-Known Member
Location
West Jordan
Cody said:
Hmm, lots to go over too ha ha. I personally think double IPA's get a bad rap, mostly because there have been so many of them that were so shitty for so long...particularly in Utah. Utah's #1 selling beer in the liquor store (utah brand (well, now owned by Monster, but whatever)) is Hop Rising, and that beer was a bad example of what was then a modern example of a IIPA in the early 2000's. Its cheap and high ABV so people have been sucking it down by the boat load for years and it's unfortunately become the standard by which most Utah drinkers compare other IIPA's. If it's not better at being Hop Rising than Hop Rising, then it's not good enough. The thing is, that beer sucks. They know it. Every brewer in Utah knows it. Every beer judge in Utah knows it. But it sells. Then came Elephino, which is pretty good....for an IPA made in the early 2010's. Ferda is a good IPA that's a bit more modern, but still nothing magical. IPA is CONSTANTLY evolving and a world class IPA from 10 years ago is nothing like what is considered world class today. None of the famous IPA's are the same as they were 10 years ago or more...not pliney, not blind pig, not stone ipa, etc etc.

The higher the hop load on a beer, the higher the "perceived" sweetness is. That is, there is no actual increase in sugar content, but modern hops have such big tropical characteristics, that those fruitier notes are perceived to the drinker as sweetness. Then, higher alcohol beers naturally have higher final gravity...that is a higher amount of residual sugar that remains after fermentation. And alcohol is also sweet. So you have sweet on sweet on sweet and that's not a good recipe for a beer that you want to drink a bunch of. Modern IPA's are cutting that sweetness out to increase drinkability.

Modern IPA's and IIPA's (specifically, west coast versions. The hazy/juicy/NEIPA is a different thing entirely and almost the complete antithesis of west coast IPA) have gradually been increasing hop loads, while decreasing the use of crystal malts that are less fermentable (more sweet), and driving final gravities down (dryer beer) so that the beers are crisper, dryer, and hoppier than ever but have more drinkability. The base beer is stripped down so nothing competes with the hops. We wanted to take everything we know about making good hoppy beers and good dry beers, and turn that into an IPA. We already make a world class example of Kolsch, which is probably the driest beer style, and a gold medal winning Hazy IPA..which is probably the hoppiest beer style. So we have lots of tools in our chest...The goal was to produce a high abv (because Utah wants higher abv because they stupidly associate alcohol quantity with beer quality), high IBU, big dry, hoppy and relatively inexpensive IIPA that had very little palate fatigue. We wanted people to want to drink 2 or 3 of them, instead of the one and done that some of these other examples are. IPA shouldn't be a kick in the teeth, it SHOULD be balanced and drinkable.

We had to source some hops that were reasonably priced to keep the cost down, and land on a base grain bill that was reasonably priced...and utilize a yeast strain we have on hand regularly. We created a label for small batch IPA's produced on our pilot system called "brew lab IPA". Our first couple batches came out on that and we got some feedback from a bunch of customers and beer judges and quickly realized that the beer that we envisioned and the beer that customers seemed to want, were not the same beer. We wanted this big, crushable, hoppy IIPA that showcased a modern stripped down grain bill, and incorporated modern fruity hops in addition to more traditional citrus/resin/pine hops that WC IPA's are usually defined by. Customers wanted sweetness and more dank, resinous hops. Ultimately, we decided that we were going to make what we wanted to make...the more modern version of the style and let customers decide if it's for them or not. Eventually, local trends follow national and I think people will learn to appreciate it. IPA shouldn't be a kick in the teeth, and Gecko is so crushable for an almost 9% beer that is 80+ IBU's. Almost all pilsner malt, almost all El Dorado hops, and fermented to dryness with lager yeast instead of ale yeast.

I think that beer is awesome, but some IIPA drinkers don't think it's as hard to drink as it should be. Why anyone would take pride in a beer being tough to drink is beyond me. That beer is approachable even for people that don't like big hoppy beers, and you can drink a couple of them...if you dare. But it's definitely not what many people here would expect when they think of a double west coast IPA.

I hope that rambling word vomit made some sense.
Click to expand...
I could listen to beer ramblings for hours. Thanks for making the beer we needed and not what the bros wanted. I love what your doing down there šŸ˜Ž
 
Hickey

Hickey

Burn-barrel enthusiast
Supporting Member
Location
Grantsville, Utah
I feel like I almost understood that. It certainly resonates with my own feelings about IPAā€™s. You guys are making great stuff. I need to get down there and resupply.
 
Cody

Cody

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Location
Gastown
It should be said that beer should never be absolute, and those thoughts on those beers are just my opinions. Ultimately the beer from a brewery will take on a lot of the personal preferences of the brewers, and certain people will like that and certain people won't. It's all good.

The rest of the answer is all the technique related stuff to get the results we want. Nothing is more boring to my wife than having to endure a conversation between brewers about the impact of dropping post boil Ph or whether increased free amino nitrogen levels in over fertilized malt negatively impacts flavor stability in a dry hopped beer ha ha.

It's just beer. Drink it and smile and let the nerds figure that shit out.

Ultimately I just make beer so I can afford to go wheelin.
 
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Cody

Cody

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Gastown
glockman said:
I can follow these instructions. I've yet to have a Bewilder beer that I didn't like. You need to get some more variations in the liquor stores!
Click to expand...
We're not really set up to do a ton more packaging, but if you keep telling bars and restaurants... And liquor stores that you don't see it... To carry our beers, that helps a ton. I can't afford sales people so that puts us at a disadvantage.
 
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