Coronavirus

[SAMI]

You should question everything.


Except religion. Don't question that, just have faith in what you are told is true, no matter how insane that story might be.

You have faith in your religion, but understand that religious leaders are imperfect people. How is it such a stretch that some people have faith in their country, but understand that the people and often the process is imperfect?

100% question humans, no matter what their role. I didn't mention a stretch, you did.

My comments are directed at the many folks who continue to say that medical professionals would not deceive or lie about what's going on.

 

[ID Bronco]

🍿🍿🍿

 

[glockman]

Some funny side info about the economic effects. My wife works for the office of recovery services. She collects child support for the state if you are unfamiliar with ORS. If you are behind on your child support, the state has been garnishing stimulus checks, just like they garnish tax returns. Her phone has been ringing off the hook. I have heard her tell people to stop yelling and swearing at her more in the last month than the previous 2 years. It is crazy. Who do people think pays for their offspring to be fed clothed and sheltered? I know there are both sides to the child support story, oddly enough feminists support the patriarchy when it is forcing men to pay them.

 

[Stephen]

My comments are directed at the many folks who continue to say that medical professionals would not deceive or lie about what's going on.

You mean like these guys?

Everyone knows that not all professionals, regardless of field, are scrupulous. Undoubtedly there are some who have ulterior motives. But the thought that this is a massive, highly coordinated international conspiracy involving nearly every medical professional in every country along with most government actors, everyone in the media, education, research, etc, etc, is laughable. My post from early on about it being a plot by the streaming companies to keep us all indoors to binge watch Tiger King and Love Island is about as plausible.
I know you're going to reply with, "Nuh uh! I never said everyone!" But that's how you present your posts. That unless if comes from one of your "highly vetted" sources, then its BS propaganda by The Man, man!
At the end of the day, I agree with the idea that most people are generally good and looking to do good, or at least stay out of each others business! Especially medical doctors (you know, the whole "Do No Harm" thing...). I'm sure that makes me a patsy because I don't live in constant fear and worry about every one and every thing around me, but whatever.

 

[Cody]

Those guys have a different narrative, therefore and thus concluding, they are immune to the deception of the mainstream. Is that the reasoning?
If I wanted to argue against vaccination I could find a video of a doctor supporting that. I could find a video of doctor saying aspirin causes autism or essential oils cure erectile dysfunction. Does that make it fact? The medical field is far from absolute, so what specifically makes the position of these doctors more valid than others? Just because you tend to agree with them or it fits into the narrative you believe? That's not real validation you realize.

Sami, dude, I don't think anyone here would wholesale disagree with you that there are likely many layers and wrinkles to this, and when the dust settles everyone's perspective will undoubtedly be different than it is today. Just because someone offers a different perspective than yours, doesn't mean you attack them and tell them they are dumb and haven't done enough research. You present your opinions as facts, when they are just opinions. That's what draws fire from poeple... Particularly people who come from a background where it isn't enough to be right, you have to understand why and be able to defend it. Instead of defending your opinions, you attack the opinions of others and refuse to apply your logic to your own arguments. That's the annoying part. Then you tell Stephen he's boring, like that's some sort of revelation lol. Maybe he's boring to you, but that's one smart nerd, like it or not.

I enjoy good passionate dialog, and I don't think I've attacked anyone's opinion in this thread that I can think of. But I will attack a poor argument. I think we should try to keep opinions as opinions, and allow statements of fact to be defended. Otherwise this whole thread will turn into nothing but a good old fashioned mud fight.

 

[Houndoc]

Everyone knows that not all professionals, regardless of field, are scrupulous. Undoubtedly there are some who have ulterior motives. But the thought that this is a massive, highly coordinated international conspiracy involving nearly every medical professional in every country along with most government actors, everyone in the media, education, research, etc, etc, is laughable. My post from early on about it being a plot by the streaming companies to keep us all indoors to binge watch Tiger King and Love Island is about as plausible.
I know you're going to reply with, "Nuh uh! I never said everyone!" But that's how you present your posts. That unless if comes from one of your "highly vetted" sources, then its BS propaganda by The Man, man!
At the end of the day, I agree with the idea that most people are generally good and looking to do good, or at least stay out of each others business! Especially medical doctors (you know, the whole "Do No Harm" thing...). I'm sure that makes me a patsy because I don't live in constant fear and worry about every one and every thing around me, but whatever.

Very well said!!!

I always find it interesting that the same people who question anything from a 'mainstream' or 'government' source will grab onto any YouTube video that fits their belief without proof or start to quote government officials IF it goes against majority opinion (as we saw a few posts above.)

 

[SAMI]

Cody, I don’t recall making any such comment to anyone about them being dumb, for the record. Asking someone if they watched a video or read an article that they are commenting on is a perfectly fair question, which I believe is what you’re referring to. I’m happy to eat crow and apologize if I called someone dumb, but I can’t find where I might have called someone dumb... boring, yes, because Stephen, while full of much knowledge, is a bit, dry on occasion. He and I have gone the rounds for over a decade razzing each other so i felt it was on par with our relationship, but it’s cute that you came to his rescue.

 

[Cody]

Has anyone said in this thread that it was a massive, highly coordinated effort? @Houndoc had said something passively about "doctors and researchers worldwide" and "when it requires the active participation of governments of all types and at all levels worldwide, religious leaders of all faiths along with researchers & doctors in every country." in separate posts but that's not him saying it's so.

To think or belive that it takes a lot of people to manipulate many, is not how it works.

Why argue that point?

Consider that it doesn't take a lot of people to persuade many. For example, a lobbyist. They're employed to persuade and they're skilled. How about someone in a key position. 99.9% don't know Fauci's stake in this or who he friends with, yet, people hang on and trust his every word. Could he manipulate an entire country? I'm just hypothesising... he's likely an angel, I'm sure.

How about a corporation with something to gain? Could they run a campaigned narrative to improve their position or destroy another?

Could politicians or an administration use the Wuhan lab theory as part of their narrative to gain agreement for whatever is next as our relationship with China evolves? (That's happening, now.)

What about a bunch of pissed off politicians or media that cannot stand Trump? Think they have anything to gain by spinning narrative to work for them?

Let's take it down to our level. Have any lazy coworkers who use this time to excuse themselves from working because of the pandemic?

What about a few executives at a social media or search engine company, think they could use the narrative to work for them?

When you put these groups together, it seems massive but it's a bunch elite trying to position themselves.

Or maybe, it's just a bunch of people trying their best to do what they think is best for the people they are supposed to serve, given the available information?

Why is that the most far fetched possibility?

 

[Cody]

It's not. There are absolutely people trying to do that. I wouldn't be so obtuse to deny it. I also wouldn't say they all have our best interests in mind.

It's not all one way or the other.

It just seems like the overall rhetoric is so absolute. There doesn't seem to be room for poeple to occupy middle ground without being fascist or having "not done research". There is nothing that sounds less intelligent than an absolute.

 

[Jesser04]

Or maybe, it's just a bunch of people trying their best to do what they think is best for the people they are supposed to serve, given the available information?

Why is that the most far fetched possibility?

Then we’d have to except that we’re responsible for electing a bunch of idiots.

Who in there right mind dreamt up the 600 a week federal unemployment compensation program? I have an employee that I let go when shit hit the fan he is making double what he made for sitting home.

Here’s another example I have a customer that is a mayor in his town they’ve had 1 confirmed case in the last week the town opened up the pickle ball courts but refuses to open the rest of the park. I asked him what he is waiting for no cases? He didn’t have much of an answer.

So to answer your question do I think the mayor is in on the plan? No. Is it easier for me to believe that parts of the government are plotting something rather than except we elected a bunch of morons? Yes.

 

[Stephen]

Then we’d have to except that we’re responsible for electing a bunch of idiots.

Who in there right mind dreamt up the 600 a week federal unemployment compensation program? I have an employee that I let go when shit hit the fan he is making double what he made for sitting home.

Here’s another example I have a customer that is a mayor in his town they’ve had 1 confirmed case in the last week the town opened up the pickle ball courts but refuses to open the rest of the park. I asked him what he is waiting for no cases? He didn’t have much of an answer.

So to answer your question do I think the mayor is in on the plan? No. Is it easier for me to believe that parts of the government are plotting something rather than except we elected a bunch of morons? Yes.

I think one of the best quotes I've heard recently about the current state of affairs in government was, "Politics isn't West Wing, its Veep." Which, if you are unfamiliar, translates into the people in modern politics are not cool, level headed professionals who make rational decisions after thorough research and debate. No, they are vain people who do anything to make themselves look good and keep getting reelected because they like the perks of the job and want to leave a "legacy", not because they want to help the country. We no longer get George H.W. Bush's running for office, we get Nancy Pelosi's.

So yeah, I accept that we are electing perhaps not morons, but surely not our best and brightest. Because that's pretty much the choice that we're given any more. The H.W.'s of the world run companies now, they don't go into civil service.

 

[Unimog]

This discussion reflects the absolutes that a lot of people throw around about politics - be they politicians or parties. Truth is every candidate has good and bad things about them. If you truly can't see that about any real example, say Donald Trump and Barack Obama, then I think you have to ask yourself if you are being objective or just listening to what you are told to think from whatever sources you choose to listen to.

 

[Herzog]

I always find it interesting that the same people who question anything from a 'mainstream' or 'government' source will grab onto any YouTube video that fits their belief without proof or start to quote government officials IF it goes against majority opinion (as we saw a few posts above.)

This is why

 

[Herzog]

There is nothing that sounds less intelligent than an absolute.

Is that an absolute?

 

[glockman]

Is that an absolute?

Sounds like one or two of the major Entertainment companies got together and sent an email to all their subsidiaries. Not too far fetched. Now add a dozen governors, mayors, health departments, congressmen and presidents and you are close to what we are seeing.
Two people who know someone is screwing their neighbor can't keep their mouths shut about that, my personal opinion is there is no way 500 or 10,000 people could all stay quiet about any conspiracy. Maybe I look at that the wrong way. Maybe they don't keep quiet to each other and they all run in the same circles. I guess that is a possibility. They keep us laypeople on the outside.

 

[Herzog]

They keep us laypeople on the outside.

Carlin said it best: It's a big club, and we're not in it!

 

[TRD270]

After this, I'll bow out.

This man has seen some things. Iraq. Operator. 10 years LEO. Father. American.

He touches on some stuff that's mentioned in posts in these 50 pages.

Take care. Be well.

Preach brotha! Was going to have this same conversation with any LEO I had contact with if I was "violating".

 

[SAMI]

A little coronavirus inspired comedy for the group...

 

[Cody]

Is that an absolute?

lol, ya it is. Did it sound dumb?

 

[Cody]

I'm curious, and this is a hypothetical because I don't think this is what will happen, but what if the media started reporting on the exaggerated death tolls, high percentage of antibodies in studies, and more or less that using new information we have been able to determine that the COVID is not exactly what we feared it was, and that we can/should comfortably go back to our lives provided we at least take care to wash our hands and such?

Would you guys buy the media's new narrative with a bunch of "I told you so"'s , or would you change to counter it because obviously some others power play is happening behind the scenes?