Coronavirus

[mbryson]

anyone else find this interesting?





Then there's the state's own data.....



For a while, the press matched the .gov. Now the .gov is painting a WAY different picture than the local press. Sensationalism and ads are definitely an influence. I wonder why people don't trust media outlets?

I don't really care much about case counts. I think we're all going to be exposed to this as I've mentioned before. I am curious about the case counts in relation to the death rate (sounds kind of morbid and I could be a statistic there as easily as anyone? I certainly don't wish that on anyone or their family members). Case counts the past few weeks have been somewhat accurate with some slight discrepancies. Death rates have been GROSSLY exaggerated by the press or WOEFULLY underreported by the .gov. Truth is somewhere in the middle? (in this case, I'm trusting the .gov which is kind of unusual for me)

 

[moab_cj5]

This is curious to me:

That on the surface doesn't seem right.

I know when my BIL passed away at the ripe age of 32 in March from a car accident, my wife was there when the coroner told my in-laws if he had COVID they would have counted his death as COVID, not blunt force trauma from the wreck.

This is what scares me about all of this: https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/28/asia/japan-suicide-women-covid-dst-intl-hnk/index.html
I suspect many in the US and other countries are putting their heads in the sand regarding the mental health crisis we are facing.

 

[TRD270]

I suspect many in the US and other countries are putting their heads in the sand regarding the mental health crisis we are facing.

Absolutely, IMO the long term effects of the stress and nonsense are going to be FAR worse than the silly virus. Think about the the social anxiety and skills fubar’d on kids alone. An entire generation that already was having socialization issues is going to be scarred forever about being closer than 6 ft from anyone.

 

[MikeGyver]

Anyone who still believes covid is actually the dire threat the media screams that it is, is truly a lost cause.

 

[Herzog]

Anyone who still believes covid is actually the dire threat the media screams that it is, is truly a lost cause.

I can't quote this enough.

 

[Pike2350]

anyone else find this interesting?
View attachment 133353

View attachment 133354


Then there's the state's own data.....
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For a while, the press matched the .gov. Now the .gov is painting a WAY different picture than the local press. Sensationalism and ads are definitely an influence. I wonder why people don't trust media outlets?

I don't really care much about case counts. I think we're all going to be exposed to this as I've mentioned before. I am curious about the case counts in relation to the death rate (sounds kind of morbid and I could be a statistic there as easily as anyone? I certainly don't wish that on anyone or their family members). Case counts the past few weeks have been somewhat accurate with some slight discrepancies. Death rates have been GROSSLY exaggerated by the press or WOEFULLY underreported by the .gov. Truth is somewhere in the middle? (in this case, I'm trusting the .gov which is kind of unusual for me)

I don't think the data is that different. The state site is the date of death....not exactly when it was reported. The news reported. O deaths on Sunday (i think) but the chart you posted shows 4 or so. The deaths report can lag the actual death by a week or more. My guess is if you add up all the deaths on the graph you get basically the same number....which right now is 995.

The news reports what the UDH puts out...just where/when the data is released may look different. If the 6 deaths listed for yesterday where hospitalized for Covid then it would be easy to say they were from Covid. The others likely died in the last week and the day they are reported is today but the day they died would be reflected on that chart....so I bet the past days change on your chart.

If that makes sense

 

[Houndoc]

Yes, and the inventor says that was not intended or designed to do so. Odd.

Nothing odd about it at all. It is a widely accepted, well validated and accurate method used to diagnose a wide range of infectious diseases. Whether it was 'intended' for that purpose when invented or not is completely irrelevant.

 

[Cody]

Viagra was developed to be a drug to treat hypertension. Just sayin.

 

[MikeGyver]

Does anybody remember when 2000 deaths was normal during ANY week of flu season EVER. Well great news, that number has dropped to 2. Oh but wait, those same old people are dying from covid now. Lock everything down! How the hell are people still falling for this nonsense?

 

[Cody]

It does look like in some seasons as many as 2k people have died per week. Others closer to 500. Flu seasons vary pretty widely 12k-61k per season over the last decade.

If we believe the reports, the daily average covid deaths over the last 7 days is 2305.....so that's 16,035 this week.

If we adjust for flu deaths at 2k, that's 14035. How many of those people would have died in the next 6-12 months of some other ailment is obviously impossible to know.

I'd also be inclined to agree that in that 16035, some number probably shouldn't be classified as covid, but again, any guess by anyone is no more than pure conjecture.

 

[Noahfecks]

I challenge anyone to research the FDA acceptable death rate for a vaccine, any vaccine. I'll take my chances with the rona.

 

[Cody]

You're a plague enthusiast. There's a shocker.

Flat earthers are a weird sort.

 

[ID Bronco]

I'd also be inclined to agree that in that 16035, some number probably shouldn't be classified as covid, but again, any guess by anyone is no more than pure conjecture.

I'd submit that the 16035 number is pure conjecture too. Some of them are certainly rona but with all the other suspect numbers it's certainly not accurate.

 

[Stephen]

I challenge anyone to research the FDA acceptable death rate for a vaccine, any vaccine. I'll take my chances with the rona.

Boy, I really wish we were still dealing with polio... Those were the good old days!

 

[Spork]

Boy, I really wish we were still dealing with polio... Those were the good old days!

People are unwilling to accept the middle ground, I can support getting a polio vaccine and still think the Covid shot is bogus. I wouldn't get the flu shot (vaccine) if it weren't for my employer requiring it, if I don't get the flu shot I would have to wear a mask and that sounds worse than getting a shot I think is ineffective. I'm only getting the covid shot if we can drop the masks. I don't see any purpose in getting a shot if the mask is still required. If someone has already had covid why would they get a shot and why do they need to wear a mask? The longer this drags on the more I question the medical community, the government, and the general public. The leper colonies seem logical at this point.

 

[Cody]

People are unwilling to accept the middle ground, I can support getting a polio vaccine and still think the Covid shot is bogus. I wouldn't get the flu shot (vaccine) if it weren't for my employer requiring it, if I don't get the flu shot I would have to wear a mask and that sounds worse than getting a shot I think is ineffective. I'm only getting the covid shot if we can drop the masks. I don't see any purpose in getting a shot if the mask is still required. If someone has already had covid why would they get a shot and why do they need to wear a mask? The longer this drags on the more I question the medical community, the government, and the general public. The leper colonies seem logical at this point.

I totally understand the sentiment about trusting a new vaccine. I really do, and I understand the rest of your position too. It's totally reasonable. People also didn't trust the polio vaccine either. I'm curious though what source you're finding that says the Covid vaccine is bogus? I also agree that people should take a rapid antibody shot prior to the vaccine, because if they already have the antibodies, then they should probably be prioritized at the end of the line. As for the mask, I think they have yet to gather enough data to determine whether the vaccine will prevent you from carrying it. All they've proven is that it stops 90+% of people from exhibiting symptoms, particularly severe symptoms. If you can cut down the number of severe infections by 90% that alone makes a massive difference, don't you think?

I'm also curious about @Noahfecks statement. I know there is an acceptable mortality rate for vaccines, and I tried to look it up without much success so I'd be interested to have him cite his info. Unfortunately some of us don't live in a world defined by factless conjecture. I believe a lot of it is based upon the difference in occurrences of the event (in this case, death) vs those occurrences in a normal population and there certainly is a range of acceptable outcomes. Without seeing the what is "acceptable", it's difficult to really make a judgement about whether or not this vaccine is more or less deadly than Covid. My supposition is that it's not even close, but the point isn't to protect those of us that are low risk of dying, it's to keep those of us who are at low risk of dying from spreading it to someone else, who spreads it to someone else, who spreads it to someone else etc etc. Viral growth through a population is parabolic, so the only real way to get it under control is to prevent as many people as possible from getting it and passing it. I realize he's in a small community, and the small communities aren't seeing the same impacts that larger cities are dealing with, but they don't get an exemption either.

I'll ****ing snort the vaccine ha ha. I'm not afraid of it, and I'd rather do my part in helping protect my fellow Americans, than to try and take some misguided and selfish stand about whether they are personally better off with our without it.

 

[Stephen]

People are unwilling to accept the middle ground, I can support getting a polio vaccine and still think the Covid shot is bogus. I wouldn't get the flu shot (vaccine) if it weren't for my employer requiring it, if I don't get the flu shot I would have to wear a mask and that sounds worse than getting a shot I think is ineffective. I'm only getting the covid shot if we can drop the masks. I don't see any purpose in getting a shot if the mask is still required. If someone has already had covid why would they get a shot and why do they need to wear a mask? The longer this drags on the more I question the medical community, the government, and the general public. The leper colonies seem logical at this point.

Vaccines, on the whole, are the definition of "medical miracle". The virtual eradication of diseases like polio, smallpox, measles, rubella, tetanus, et. all. has been an amazing boon to humanity. Yes, not every one is 100% effective (influenza is the best example here), but again on the balance you cannot deny that vaccines are a good thing.
With the COVID-19 vaccine's, I'm as skeptical that the next person due to how fast they rushed them out. BUT, I also trust that they took as many precautions as they have with any other vaccine except the lengthy human trials. Having known many people who worked in clinical trials, they always said that half the trials were just to satisfy some bureaucratic red tape and they often covered the same ground several times. So hopefully when this vaccine turns out to be successful, it will revolutionize vaccinology and help us get future cures out faster.
All that said, I am not an expert. But I did drink a BeWilder beer last night.

 

[Spork]

I totally understand the sentiment about trusting a new vaccine. I really do, and I understand the rest of your position too. It's totally reasonable. People also didn't trust the polio vaccine either. I'm curious though what source you're finding that says the Covid vaccine is bogus? I also agree that people should take a rapid antibody shot prior to the vaccine, because if they already have the antibodies, then they should probably be prioritized at the end of the line. As for the mask, I think they have yet to gather enough data to determine whether the vaccine will prevent you from carrying it. All they've proven is that it stops 90+% of people from exhibiting symptoms, particularly severe symptoms. If you can cut down the number of severe infections by 90% that alone makes a massive difference, don't you think?

You said it right in your message "I think they have yet to gather enough data to determine whether the vaccine will prevent you from carrying it."

Either we believe in the vaccine enough to loose the masks or we don't believe in the vaccine. My tinfoil hat comes up with plenty of other reasons/theories/suspicions why they advance the you have to still wear the mask idea, everything from anonymity for other activities to masks causing disease spread. I already sited the U study earlier in the thread https://www.ksl.com/article/5001479...-catching-covid-19-from-someone-at-home-is-12 if your chances of catching it from someone living in your own home is only 12% why are we worried about getting a beer after 10pm? There's been plenty of stupid government overreach, from chasing a paddleboarder down in the ocean to letting old folks die alone, the lack of confidence in a solution is causing me to doubt the cure.

 

[Cody]

Sure, whenever you're trying to figure out something like a global pandemic on the cuff, it's going to be weird and there are plenty of outlets for armchair medical experts, politicians, etc to be vocal about how things should have been done better. But the part of my message that I still think needs to be considered, is that it's not that we don't believe in the vaccine, it's that all we know definitively about the vaccine is that it prevents the person vaccinated from being symptomatic. We don't know if it prevents you from getting it altogether because all of the people in the trials that didn't get infected because they had the vaccine haven't been studied enough to know if they didn't get it, or didn't get the reactions. If you can still carry, you can still spread. If the masks are at all effective, until we know that, then the masks will stay. I've gone on record saying I doubt in the efficacy of masks, but even if it prevents spread by 1%, over a population of hundreds of millions, that does add up to a lot of people.

If you don't think 1 % compounded multiple times over and over doesn't add up, then don't refi you house when interest rates drop 1%

 

[Houndoc]

I challenge anyone to research the FDA acceptable death rate for a vaccine, any vaccine. I'll take my chances with the rona.

Let's look at vaccine safety, admitting that much in the way of long-term effects of the COVID vaccines are unknown but also that long-term side effects of any vaccine are exceptionally rare to non-existent.
In the studies of both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, in the ball park 50,000 of people have been vaccinated without life-threatening complications and no fatalities.
In the U.S. over 300,000 people have died of COVID (nearly 1in 1,000 people, of the entire population, not just those who have contracted the virus).
If the vaccine-induced death rate was even close to the disease fatality rate, 50 or so people in the clinical trials would have died from the vaccine. Again, it is 0.
Pretty clear the vaccine is safer.