Dakar Cancelled

[teknodestrukto]

If you are going to judge a whole society, by god yes! Remember, if it were not for the French, the United States would not exist. What was it that General Pershing said when he arrived in France, "Lafayette, we are here."?
And think about the First World War: The Somme, The Marne, Verdun! An entire generation wiped out. So when the Second World War occurred and the French were faced with a vastly superior, battle hardened force invading their country and their only real ally wasn't fully behind the war yet and only had an small expeditionary force in France to assist. What could they do? They surrendered to SAVE THEIR PEOPLE! And if you think that the French didn't contribute to the defeat of Germany, tell that to the survivors of the maquis! Had it not been for the French Resistance the liberation of France and Europe would have been a much tougher battle. We probably would have invaded at Calais instead of Normandy, and that would have been even more horrific.
Sure their empire has fallen, the Indochine War was a mistake and their attempt to hold on to Algeria was bloodbath that makes our Vietnam War look tame. But France still holds a huge sway in international politics, has an immensely capable military which includes the only non-US super carrier in the world and influences the globe through its language and arts. To judge a country on only the last century and a single military failure is ridiculous.
By the same standards even the US is a dismal failure. Out culture has gone to hell, we've lost our 'empire' (the Philippines), we fought to a stalemate in Korea, lost in Vietnam and are arguably losing in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Poles in the Warsaw Ghetto held out longer against the Nazis than the French Army. They do hold way too much political sway and just think, in 2050, or sooner, it'll be an Islamic Republic with nukes...:tara:

 

[Stephen]

Right now they roll over easy

Please provide with examples and facts to back up statement.

...sell stuff to terrorists, then fight tooth and nail to keep us (as in the rest of the world, not US) from finding out.... then somehow weasel out of any consequences.

The US provided weapons, material and training to the Mujahadeem in Afghanistan during the Soviet war there. Later, these same people became the Taliban and Al Qeada. We also provided weapons to Iran during the Iran - Iraq War. During both of these events we fought tooth and nail too keep the rest of the world from finding out as well. Crime and politics, the situation is always fluid.

Also, I never said compared to ________ France sucks, I just said that France sucks.

Which begs the question, what is the standard for which you are holding France to?

The Poles in the Warsaw Ghetto held out longer against the Nazis than the French Army.

Did you even read what I typed? Let me make it simpler:
A) Let an invading army kill off all the men of service age and decimate your entire country... for the second time in 30 years.
B) Surrender in the hopes of sparring your country the above horror.

They do hold way too much political sway

Funny, the majority of the world thinks the same thing about the US...

and just think, in 2050, or sooner, it'll be an Islamic Republic with nukes...

And we'll all be speaking Spanish and have become inconsequential on the global stage... Boy I love being a pessimist!

 

[Meat_]

The US provided weapons, material and training to the Mujahadeem in Afghanistan during the Soviet war there. Later, these same people became the Taliban and Al Qeada. We also provided weapons to Iran during the Iran - Iraq War. During both of these events we fought tooth and nail too keep the rest of the world from finding out as well. Crime and politics, the situation is always fluid.



Which begs the question, what is the standard for which you are holding France to?

What's with the France love?

When we gave them arms they were not under UN sanctions, last I checked France was a member.

 

[Stephen]

What's with the France love?

Its not really 'France love' it's just more of a consequence of having received a degree in History with an emphasis in post-war Europe (or the Cold War).

When we gave them arms they were not under UN sanctions, last I checked France was a member.

If I recall, Iran was (Security Council Resolution 479 called for an end to hostilities, which means that UN members should not provide combatants with any form of military aid. Reaffirmed with 514, 522, 552 [specific to Iran]). Which is one of the reasons the whole Iran - Contra affair was such a big deal. Along with the whole drug money thing and providing rebel's (read: terrorists) with monetary aid.

 

[Tacoma]

uhhhhhhhhhh

Ok.

/discussion.

 

[Cody]

lol, facts come in, Tacoma checks out.

haha.

 

[Meat_]

lol, facts come in, Tacoma checks out.

haha.

It's pointless to argue with college folk.

 

[Tacoma]

lol, facts come in, Tacoma checks out.

haha.

Pfft. Not even, Slick. But it's apparent that a certain mindset has been espoused. That's cool, but gawddang, there's other stuff on the internet for me to see.

 

[Tacoma]

hahah

Despite having one of the largest and most technologically advanced standing armies in Europe, and the money to support it, France consistently lost out on the development of new tactics through insufficient training

 

[Cody]

Pfft. Not even, Slick. But it's apparent that a certain mindset has been espoused. That's cool, but gawddang, there's other stuff on the internet for me to see.

Hey, you don't have to justify it to me bud. You got called out, and you shut up. It happens to most people that have opinions from time to time. It is what it is.

It's pointless to argue with college folk.

knowledge is a ***** isn't it


Can we get back to regurgitating some blather now?

 

[Meat_]

knowledge is a ***** isn't it

That's not what I said.

Hey, you went to college didn't you?

 

[Cody]

Ya. I have a few pieces of paper that collect dust in my closet.

My degrees are useless for most things. SRN at least can have the satisfaction of throwing facts in the face of those who get their dose of info from the mass media and don't know the bigger picture. I wish I had the requisite attention span to study history

 

[Meat_]

He didn't throw anything in my face that I didn't already know. Well other than this part

it's just more of a consequence of having received a degree in History with an emphasis in post-war Europe (or the Cold War).

Which told me to save my breath

 

[Cody]

He didn't throw anything in my face that I didn't already know. Well other than this part

Which told me to save my breath

I wasn't saying he did.

 

[Stephen]

Ya. I have a few pieces of paper that collect dust in my closet.

My degrees are useless for most things. SRN at least can have the satisfaction of throwing facts in the face of those who get their dose of info from the mass media and don't know the bigger picture. I wish I had the requisite attention span to study history

*sniff* Thats the nicest thing you've ever said to me Cody!

 

[Tacoma]

Hey, you don't have to justify it to me bud. You got called out, and you shut up. It happens to most people that have opinions from time to time. It is what it is.

I didn't get called out! gawd. SRN is lucid in his points, but more discussion amounts to a French history lesson that really is outside the scope of this thread... I don't know that he even disagrees with the very few points that I've made, the main thrust of which is that MODERN FRENCH SOCIETY lacks the political, cultural, and economic clout that it once did. We disagree on France's decision to roll over for Hitler. So be it!

The argument was between SRN and Meat, who actually WAS called out in Post #22. If you're going to mock me, do it right damnit!

oh yeah:

 

[SAMI]

[YOUTUBE]e-NbS-b1IF8[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Stephen]

Interesting read: Robby Gordon's thoughts on the cancellation.

 

[Skylinerider]

Update on next years location

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/7786132?MSNHPHMA