Dana 44 axles with 19 Spline

[chadr]

Guys, I need to get some info or opinions on an axle swap that I would like to do. My rig is a 1963 Jeep CJ-5 that I am working on getting back up to trail/daily driver status. I have purchased a set of Dana 44 axles our of a 1979 Jeep Cherokee Chief that are passenger side offset that I was considering putting under it for the width. I hate the stock narrow track axles that are under it now. :-\

My drivetrain goes as follows. I am using a 350 Chevy and SM 465 tranny mated to the Dana 18 T case. I have seen axle swap done before on a couple of sites and the rear axle doesn’t look that bad to put in, but from what I have heard, the rear axles are 19 spline Dana 44’s and are not very common to upgrade. I have looked into Alloy USA and Superior Axles and they both do not make a 19 spline axle for this application. I have contacted a few other axle makers and they all are coming back with the same thing. They would have to custom make the axles for me.

What are my upgrade options? Are 19 spline axles very strong or should I be upgrading to something stronger? Can I swap another type of axle shaft into the existing housing that would be stronger, but not a custom ordered axle? I can always replace the stock axles with OEM stuff, but I would probably like to upgrade them to Alloy if I break them anyway. Has anyone ever done this before and what price did it cost you?

What other options can I consider on this? I know that I could find a 9” or Dana 60 axle somewhere, but with the widths, I know that I would have to have the tubes redone and most are not passenger side drop. This usually would also mean that all of my axles are custom cut anyway. I would rather keep the axle width that the Cherokee Chief axles are so I can fix them withoug scrounging parts every time.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Brett]

Hmm.....19 spine shafts from a '79? That just doesn't sound right. All my info that I can find is saying that it should be a normal 30 spline Dana 44. You'd have to have a MUCH older 44 for it to be the 19 spline version.

 

[chadr]

Is there any way to verify the axle splines without pulling the shafts? I guess I could pull the diff covers and count them?

 

[Brett]

Is there any way to verify the axle splines without pulling the shafts? I guess I could pull the diff covers and count them?

You could try pulling the cover, but you probably won't be able to see much of the shafts, since they slide into the side gears and are mostly covered. I'd pull a shaft and double check. I bet money with that axle being a 79, that it's 30 spline shafts.

 

[Milner]

The 79 will be 30 spline shafts. Your stock 63 is 19 spline.
The 19 spline housing is not worth upgrading, thin/small types, weaker center casting etc....Just upgrade with an whole new axle, like the 79's you have.

9" is not a good idea in a CJ 5 due to drive line angle problems. 60 will work, but may not be needed depending on tire size....

 

[chadr]

The 79 will be 30 spline shafts. Your stock 63 is 19 spline.
The 19 spline housing is not worth upgrading, thin/small types, weaker center casting etc....Just upgrade with an whole new axle, like the 79's you have.

9" is not a good idea in a CJ 5 due to drive line angle problems. 60 will work, but may not be needed depending on tire size....

I think that you are right. I looked up on Four wheel Parts website and they have an axle database for stock axles that tells you what was produced. This is what I found
http://www.4wheelparts.com/4wp/ORS/store_categories.asp?cat=34&t1=4026&t2=4724&t3=4733&t4=6773
I know that I don't have the AMC 20 rearend so that would mean that the 30 spline would be the only other option that is shown. Are the 30 spline axles readily available? What does the cost usually run for these?

Are the 9" able to have the higher diff with the reverse rotation put in to help out on the driveline angles? What does this do to your costs if it is?

 

[Milner]

I think that you are right. I looked up on Four wheel Parts website and they have an axle database for stock axles that tells you what was produced. This is what I found
http://www.4wheelparts.com/4wp/ORS/store_categories.asp?cat=34&t1=4026&t2=4724&t3=4733&t4=6773
I know that I don't have the AMC 20 rearend so that would mean that the 30 spline would be the only other option that is shown. Are the 30 spline axles readily available? What does the cost usually run for these?

Are the 9" able to have the higher diff with the reverse rotation put in to help out on the driveline angles? What does this do to your costs if it is?

Any axle vendor should be able to get you shafts for the '79 axle. But just run the stock ones until you need alloys.

Yes you can get highpinion/reverse drop in's for a 9", but they are $$$$. Currie makes one using a 8.8 r/p from the frt of 1/2 ton or expi.
It is really not much different in strength then a hp44. Arguments could be made for and against either. The Currie hi 9" also lacks the 3rd pinion bearing of the standard 9"

Tru Hi 9" makes a rev/hp drop in for the 9" that is very cool. All custom made for them. It is a true 9" r/p that they have made in reverse spiral and a completely redesigned dropin with improve oiling, 3rd pinion bearing, and thrust plate/bolt. I am very impressed with them and would love to run one, but $$$$.

What is you plan for the Jeep? 33's, 35's, bigger? what kind of wheeling? any lower tcase gearing in the future? what about motor hop ups? Suspension? Lift?
All of this is a big part of making the right axle choice....

 

[olywrestle]

Is your rear Chief axle off set, because the dana 18 is. If it is a centered axle you will end up running your driveline at a bad angle and snap u-joints left and right. If it is a centered axle, you might want to upgrade to a Dana 20

 

[DaveB]

Is your rear Chief axle off set, because the dana 18 is. If it is a centered axle you will end up running your driveline at a bad angle and snap u-joints left and right. If it is a centered axle, you might want to upgrade to a Dana 20

70's vintage wagoneers and cherokees had offset rear axles which work great with a dana 18 or quadratrac

 

[Kiel]

I have offset 44's out of an 75 waggy and they aren't 19 spline they're the 30 spline I believe.

 

[chadr]

Is your rear Chief axle off set, because the dana 18 is. If it is a centered axle you will end up running your driveline at a bad angle and snap u-joints left and right. If it is a centered axle, you might want to upgrade to a Dana 20

It is passenger side offset. The engine is a 350 chevy, SM 465 Tranny and Dana 18 T-case.

The stock axles that are on it now are Passenger side offset also.

 

[chadr]

Any axle vendor should be able to get you shafts for the '79 axle. But just run the stock ones until you need alloys.

Yes you can get highpinion/reverse drop in's for a 9", but they are $$$$. Currie makes one using a 8.8 r/p from the frt of 1/2 ton or expi.
It is really not much different in strength then a hp44. Arguments could be made for and against either. The Currie hi 9" also lacks the 3rd pinion bearing of the standard 9"

Tru Hi 9" makes a rev/hp drop in for the 9" that is very cool. All custom made for them. It is a true 9" r/p that they have made in reverse spiral and a completely redesigned dropin with improve oiling, 3rd pinion bearing, and thrust plate/bolt. I am very impressed with them and would love to run one, but $$$$.

What is you plan for the Jeep? 33's, 35's, bigger? what kind of wheeling? any lower tcase gearing in the future? what about motor hop ups? Suspension? Lift?
All of this is a big part of making the right axle choice....

I am planning on running the stock axles until I break these ones, but I wanted to make sure that the axles that I put under it are going to be able to be upgraded if and when I do break something. Right now I am running 32" BFG mud terrains, and someday I am looking at puting at least 33" tires on it. For the time being and if it gets any more extreme than that, I will have to lengthen the wheelbase. I am planning on putting in probably 4.56 gears along with a locker at least in the rear.

From what I read, the t-case (Dana 18) is plenty strong. It already has a 350 chevy in it and I am in the process of putting the SM 465 in it. I want it to be a daily driver, but with the capability to run a 4+ trail if needed. I have a 2.5 inch lift with 1 inch shackles on it right now, and with how narrow it is, I didn't want to go much higher due to the center of gravity.

 

[Milner]

I am planning on running the stock axles until I break these ones, but I wanted to make sure that the axles that I put under it are going to be able to be upgraded if and when I do break something. Right now I am running 32" BFG mud terrains, and someday I am looking at puting at least 33" tires on it. For the time being and if it gets any more extreme than that, I will have to lengthen the wheelbase. I am planning on putting in probably 4.56 gears along with a locker at least in the rear.

From what I read, the t-case (Dana 18) is plenty strong. It already has a 350 chevy in it and I am in the process of putting the SM 465 in it. I want it to be a daily driver, but with the capability to run a 4+ trail if needed. I have a 2.5 inch lift with 1 inch shackles on it right now, and with how narrow it is, I didn't want to go much higher due to the center of gravity.

Seems like the 44's you have would be the perfect choice. Those should work up to 35's. Any bigger and you are looking at 60's. 44's are very upgradeable, but be warned, if you get to the point that you are upgrading 44's to run 38+ tires, your money is better spent on 60's.

JMHO

 

[chadr]

Seems like the 44's you have would be the perfect choice. Those should work up to 35's. Any bigger and you are looking at 60's. 44's are very upgradeable, but be warned, if you get to the point that you are upgrading 44's to run 38+ tires, your money is better spent on 60's.

JMHO

I think that I will probably stick with the 44s. I doubt that I will go with bigger than 35's anyway. This rig is really going to be a trail rig and probably will not be a rock crawler buggy.

If I was to go any bigger than 35's, I would probably sell off the axles anyway and try to find some 60's, but these axles will do me fine for the price. I want to get them rebuilt/re-sealed and probably put a locker in them. I am considering the Detroits, but I don't know if I would want them full time locked if it is a daily driver. I am also looking at the ARB and OX lockers for the selectable aspect of it.

I have heard a lot of mixed emotions on both of the ARB and OX lockers. What does everyone have to say about them? I have heard that ARB sometimes has problems with the air lines and seals, and the OX's have problems with the cable actuation if it wasn't set up by professionals. I have also heard that it is hard to get the OX to be in the locked position.

I am trying to get the axle setup in the works so I need to make these decisions here in the near future. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[rondo]

On a couple of occasions my ARB lockers gave me trouble. Occasionally the rear locker would not disengage, and once the plastic air line melted somewhere halfway from the compressor to the rear axle. Even though I ran the line inside the frame. To this day I don't know what melted it. And i've run them now since 2001 with no problems before or since. That's on my daily driver and the purpose is to run open on icy roads.
However for a trail only rig i'd probably just run detroits. They are awesome. For years in my YJ I ran a detroit rear in the Ford 9" and a lockright front in the D44 on 35s and had no issues at all (except for the 4 point turns) haha

 

[chadr]

On a couple of occasions my ARB lockers gave me trouble. Occasionally the rear locker would not disengage, and once the plastic air line melted somewhere halfway from the compressor to the rear axle. Even though I ran the line inside the frame. To this day I don't know what melted it. And i've run them now since 2001 with no problems before or since. That's on my daily driver and the purpose is to run open on icy roads.
However for a trail only rig i'd probably just run detroits. They are awesome. For years in my YJ I ran a detroit rear in the Ford 9" and a lockright front in the D44 on 35s and had no issues at all (except for the 4 point turns) haha

That is what I heard about the ARB also. There have been a lot of guys say that they had their seals and o rings start leaking and they would disengage while out on a treil or a air line got crushed or broken. That might have been on the older ARB stuff though. I know that the newer equipment seems to have had a lot more thought put into it.

I don't commonly go out in the ice and snow much, but I would like to be able to sometimes while out playing. I might have to just go with the Detroits since the times that I am in the Ice and snow here in the Southern Desert is minimal compared to the times in the sand and Rocks.

Anyone had the OX lockers that would like to tell all???

 

[Milner]

I always say go with Detroit, east, strong, and care free....put in a short wheelbase cj5 with a manual trans, any of the automatic lockers can be a handful to handle....All the horror stories you hear, I think come from cj5owners....Still not a bad option, but it is one of a few times I would say to go selectable if you can afford it.
How about Tibus/Tera cable locker? Electra-trac?
ARB is better now than they were in the past, but get the little care package of common spare part from Kurt (CruiserOutfit).

 

[chadr]

I always say go with Detroit, east, strong, and care free....put in a short wheelbase cj5 with a manual trans, any of the automatic lockers can be a handful to handle....All the horror stories you hear, I think come from cj5owners....Still not a bad option, but it is one of a few times I would say to go selectable if you can afford it.
How about Tibus/Tera cable locker? Electra-trac?
ARB is better now than they were in the past, but get the little care package of common spare part from Kurt (CruiserOutfit).

I have never heard of the Tibus/Tera cable locker. Do you have more information on it? I have only heard of the OX for Cable actuated lockers.

Has anyone ever used the electra-trac? I have never heard any reviews on it.

 

[Milner]

http://www.teraflex.biz/pages/product_results.php