Dana 44 questions

[grandmaster]

Alrighty...a few questions.

I want to swap in a HP 44 driver drop into my Jeep, However, I would like to keep the existing bolt pattern (5x4.5) so I don't have to buy new wheels. I understand that no D44 has that bolt pattern...so I would have to convert. Is this possible? What would be required if so? I will post up if I think of anything else.

Also...this means I will be looking for a D44 as well.

 

[Chevycrew]

I have a driver drop HP 44 housing with the welded on C's (the good one)

Plus a bunch of stuff for it. Pm if interested. Im not sure on the 5 on 4.5" though.

 

[Too Far]

You want to find the axle from a '77.5-'79 f250. These are the ones with the thick tubes and set up for leaf springs. They make the best axles for swaps.
Not sure on the bolt pattern, but where there is a will there is a way.


Wow, over posted with the reply above. The early f150 axles work well too, but tubes are thinner.

 

[jrodxj]

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/wheel-adapter-5x4-5-5x5-5-a-208344/

 

[grandmaster]

Link didn't do much for me....Thanks for info on those that posted. Still need an answer about getting it to 5 on 4.5

 

[I Lean]

I'm 90% sure there's no way to go to 5 x 4.5". There isn't enough room in the small bolt pattern to fit the wheel hub through.

Best bet is to swap to 5 x 5.5" wheels, and if you aren't swapping the rear axle you can get a bolt-on adapter to go to the larger pattern.

 

[grandmaster]

Thats what I was really worried about. Because I really didn't want to buy new wheels. :/ ugh. The rear is an 8.8 so it has the same bolt pattern.

 

[Toad]

I have a buddy doing this right now. He has a f150 44 he cut the tubes to length and then machined the tubes down to the right diameter so that they will fit a stock dana 30inner C and knuckle. It will still use the facotry unit bearing also.

 

[grandmaster]

Hmmmm....that sounds interesting. I would like pix if at all possible. Or maybe some contact info of who did his machining.

 

[mbryson]

There is a Dodge 4x4 pickup that runs the 5 on 4.5" wheel pattern. It was available in the late '70s. HOWEVER, that axle is somewhat rare and really not worth finding as I believe it runs the 260 sized axle joint commonly available in CJ Dana 30s. Google search shows the previous to be somewhat correct with some comments (not necessarily correct?) about weakish wheel bearings on the Dodge front axles.

You could use the Dodge stuff on a Ford/Chev/Jeep D44 but really the cost of finding a Dodge 44, researching if you need the small/big spindle and the rareity of parts make it not really an attractive option when you can pick up a set of 6 on 5.5" or 5 on 5.5" wheels on the cheap and have mo better options. I'm SURE you can get the 8.8 axles drilled to 5 on 5.5" somewhat cheaply.

The other option is to just stick to 35" or under tires on you ZJ and make the 8.8/D30 work for you. If it were me, I'd go with 33" or 35" tires and just enjoy the ZJ for what it is.

 

[I Lean]

There are C-clip eliminator kits for the 8.8 that convert to basically a 9" style shaft, so then you could just about have your choice of bolt patterns. It's more $$ to throw at it though....

 

[grandmaster]

It's got 33" tires on it now. Haven't had a ton of problems on it. But I'm going to jump up to 37's now....which is my reason for the D44. If i can get away with converting the front to take 5 on 4.5" I would be much better off then having the expense of buying a new set of bead locks for it. Also.I will be converting the 8.8 in the rear to the 9" style shaft after I start having problems with breaking shafts.

 

[mbryson]

It's got 33" tires on it now. Haven't had a ton of problems on it. But I'm going to jump up to 37's now....which is my reason for the D44. If i can get away with converting the front to take 5 on 4.5" I would be much better off then having the expense of buying a new set of bead locks for it. Also.I will be converting the 8.8 in the rear to the 9" style shaft after I start having problems with breaking shafts.

37" tires on the ZJ? Street legal? This'll be cool. IMHO, 37" on a D44 is kind of begging for problems. This depends on your driving style and all kinds of variables, but I think you'll be wanting more axle joint than the D44 can give you (well, you can upgrade to CTM or ??? joint and alloys with some reliability). For my money, I'd just bump up to something with a larger axle joint or stick with a smaller tire.

Which trails are you expecting to run on 37" tires that you can't run on 33" tires?

 

[RockChucker]

levi, i was in this same debate for a while too. and here is what i decided, get a 60. 37's are just a little much for a 44, unless you want to put a lot of money in it, and then you are at the cost of a 60 anyway. also, as to your wheel problem...are you still on 15's? if so, then you'll probably have to get new wheels anyway to run 37's. there are few options left for 37's and a 15 inch wheel.

plus, 17's offer the advantages of being able to run bigger brakes to help stop those bigger meats. just my $.02. either way it will be sweet. and you are going to be in moab for GSW right? i think that is the same weekend we are going down. we should meet up. i know we are planning on behind the rocks...

 

[grandmaster]

37" tires on the ZJ? Street legal? This'll be cool. IMHO, 37" on a D44 is kind of begging for problems. This depends on your driving style and all kinds of variables, but I think you'll be wanting more axle joint than the D44 can give you (well, you can upgrade to CTM or ??? joint and alloys with some reliability). For my money, I'd just bump up to something with a larger axle joint or stick with a smaller tire.

Which trails are you expecting to run on 37" tires that you can't run on 33" tires?

Nope....it's a trailer queen now haha...strictly OHV now. I've heard mixed things about the D44 and 37's. It's only a 4.0 So not all that much power even if I am a little heavy on the skinny pedal. I've hear I should be okay with 37" tires as long as they aren't sticky (which they won't be) and if I run full circle clips on the joints.

I'm having mixed feelings because I REALLY don't wanna swap the rear axle again at this point in time. I don't have a ton of money as it is so I will be saving for everything that i do...gathering parts and slowly building it up. If i go 1 ton's i'd either have to narrow it down or change the rear axle to be close to the same width (ideally a sweet idea....just not quite in the budget right now).

Well...I mostly want to run 37s because right now I get hung up on EVERYTHING just don't have the ground clearance that I need and want. At OSRC this weekend I had the smallest tire in my class (along with one other guy) and I got high centered and hung up on stuff that other people didn't even snag...taking the exact same line. I'd just love to be a bit more built to try some even harder obstacles and keep up with my buddies a bit better.

levi, i was in this same debate for a while too. and here is what i decided, get a 60. 37's are just a little much for a 44, unless you want to put a lot of money in it, and then you are at the cost of a 60 anyway. also, as to your wheel problem...are you still on 15's? if so, then you'll probably have to get new wheels anyway to run 37's. there are few options left for 37's and a 15 inch wheel.

plus, 17's offer the advantages of being able to run bigger brakes to help stop those bigger meats. just my $.02. either way it will be sweet. and you are going to be in moab for GSW right? i think that is the same weekend we are going down. we should meet up. i know we are planning on behind the rocks...

 

[I Lean]

The big problem is the main weak point you have with your D30 (the steering U-joints) are the exact same size as the D44 steering U-joints. You're gaining R&P strength, a servicable wheel bearing/spindle setup, and probably better brakes.

In my mind, not enough benefit to justify swapping it in, especially if it's a trailer queen. (which mostly removes the servicable wheel bearing benefit)

 

[mbryson]

The big problem is the main weak point you have with your D30 (the steering U-joints) are the exact same size as the D44 steering U-joints. You're gaining R&P strength, a servicable wheel bearing/spindle setup, and probably better brakes.

In my mind, not enough benefit to justify swapping it in, especially if it's a trailer queen. (which mostly removes the servicable wheel bearing benefit)

This

Nope....it's a trailer queen now haha...strictly OHV now. I've heard mixed things about the D44 and 37's. It's only a 4.0 So not all that much power even if I am a little heavy on the skinny pedal. I've hear I should be okay with 37" tires as long as they aren't sticky (which they won't be) and if I run full circle clips on the joints.

I'm having mixed feelings because I REALLY don't wanna swap the rear axle again at this point in time. I don't have a ton of money as it is so I will be saving for everything that i do...gathering parts and slowly building it up. If i go 1 ton's i'd either have to narrow it down or change the rear axle to be close to the same width (ideally a sweet idea....just not quite in the budget right now).

Well...I mostly want to run 37s because right now I get hung up on EVERYTHING just don't have the ground clearance that I need and want. At OSRC this weekend I had the smallest tire in my class (along with one other guy) and I got high centered and hung up on stuff that other people didn't even snag...taking the exact same line. I'd just love to be a bit more built to try some even harder obstacles and keep up with my buddies a bit better.

I broke the same 760 joint multiple times with stock TJ shafts and snap rings. It's your rig and your money, but you're going down a road A LOT of people have before. Almost ALL of them have reduced tire size with their now polished D44 to help it live or moved up to a D60.

I've not exactly been nice to my D60 for the past six years and it's lived where I KNOW I would have broken stock D44 stuff (alloy stuff, probably not, but.....) running 37"-40" tires.

 

[X1994J]

I am running a 79 ford D44 front with stock shafts and Alloys USA U joints.. My second trip to Moab I broke a front outer at the hub on bald 38" TSL's.

A couple trips later on a snow run out to five I broke the Alloy USA on the same side, it took out the ears on both the inner and outer shafts. I was running 37" MTR's this time.

IMO, too much tire for stock 44 shafts. I do have a heavy foot, but I thought they would last longer than this. I will be purchasing Alloys shafts soon and hope thy will hold up, honestly, I have my doubts.

 

[Gravy]

No you can't run 5x4.5" with a ford 44. the hub is too big for the bolt pattern.
You could swap CJ inner knuckles and use your XJ dana 30 outers but that's not any advantage in strength and doesn't get you good wheel bearings, or bigger axleshafts or anything... it's a step in the wrong direction.

Like Carl said: you can get alloy shafts for your 8.8 that will eliminate the c-clip and are dual drilled to let you run 5x4.5" and the bigger 5x5.5" bolt pattern. you'll have to have your drums or discs redrilled to fit also obviously. (this is a good idea anyway: did you see what happened to Mary on course 4 when she broke an 8.8 shaft?)

I've told many people this, but... keep in mind, the newest stock axleshaft in a d44 front, (that can be easily adapted to your rig) is over 40 years old. You'll want alloys.

Alloy shafts have come a long way lately.
Will a 44 with alloy joints and shafts handle a 37? Depends on your driving style, but the ring gear should handle it.

You can even get RCV's for your d44 and there is a Rousch Creek KOH competitor running a 39" tire with water reliably with a d44 front and RCV's

Think about this: toy axles run 37's fairly reliably with longfields and some even run a bigger motor.

(With alloys) the ford 44 has some advantages to a toy axle.
Bigger ring/ pinion
high pinion so it runs doesn't run on the coast side of the ring gear like a low pinion toy 8"
bigger wheel bearings/ hubs/ brakes (the bigger wheel bearings are a huge advantage over the stock d30 unit bearings, especially on a trail rig where they see more side loading)
stiffer housing/ larger axletubes
upgradeable: you can now even run d50 gears in your d44 with a Jantz D54 kit. (You're regearing anyways and the kit costs only slightly more than most master install kits + d50 ring/pinion isn't much more than a D44 ring/pinion)

If I was to build a d44 front to run 37's, here is the recipe I would use:
Ford 76-77 f-150
Jana D54 kit (D50 ring/pinion)
RCV 30 spline axles or 30 spline yukon 4340 inners/outers, longfield ujoints
any 30 spline locker.
30 spline drive flanges or RCV Warn Locking Hub 30 spline 300M Gear upgrade in warn premium hubs

I've spent lots of time pricing it but you are easily looking at $1000+ more build a d60 to run 37's reliably with 5x5.5" vs a d44.
(to run 37's on a d60 you'll need to gear it and run alloy outers at bare minimum).

ultimately it's up to you, but IMO there is no cheap way to run 37's reliably.

 

[grandmaster]

Okay. Thanks everyone for you input! Stratton, thanks for all the info you rounded up.

Looks the the jeep will be fixed (Drag link/tie rod/ hydro/ radiator support) for now and stay the way it is so I can use it while I gather parts. Obviously this isn't the way to go...

Looks like a D60 and a 9" are gonna be my best bet. Any info about what vehicles to get those out of or what route I should go would be greatly appreciated! I would like to stick to a common bolt patter that isn't 8 lug either if at all possible. Mind as well just bite the bullet and start gathering parts now.