Dauntless 225 help

[jmaxj]

Anybody here know anything about the odd fire dauntless 225? I have one I'm working on for a friend. It's in a 67 CJ5. Problem is the thing just won't start, got fuel and spark still won't fire. It backfired once through the carb. Kinda sputter once slightly and that it. I'm at a loss. Can't find a decent wiring diagram for These to see if all the motor wiring is right. The po could have done something and changed it for all I know. Any help would be great.

 

[Magerdgr]

Are you sure the distributor isn't 180 off? What about wires in the right firing order?

 

[RogueJeepr]

I have a 231 evenfire. Its almost the same engine. I would agree with the dizzy 180* off. Point it to the # 1 spark plug and use a flatbladed screwdriver to make sure the oil pump lines up.
Took me a few tries when I swapped the engine into another car.

 

[mbryson]

Find TDC and point distributor at #1 cylinder and you should be good to go?

 

[jmaxj]

Are you sure the distributor isn't 180 off? What about wires in the right firing order?

I'm pretty sure it's not. I've tried both ways. And I'm not 100% sure. I only have this pic for the info.

I have a 231 evenfire. Its almost the same engine. I would agree with the dizzy 180* off. Point it to the # 1 spark plug and use a flatbladed screwdriver to make sure the oil pump lines up.
Took me a few tries when I swapped the engine into another car.

Done that many times with no change. If it's 180 off I can't figure where. Is there another way this dizzy goes in I'm not seeing? Right now the vac advance is pointed to the alt, but the rotor points to the #1 cylinder.

Find TDC and point distributor at #1 cylinder and you should be good to go?

I've reset timing on TDC many many times. And when you say distributor you mean rotor right? Cause that's what I've been pointing at #1 the distributor basically only sits in one way.


Also I forgot to mention the points in this were shot, so they got replaced by the pertronix ignition designed for these motors. Basically replaces the points is all. I've reset it to TDC I don't know how many times, pointed the rotor to #1 cylinder and still no change. I can't find any diagram for wiring and vague diagrams for firing order. Meaning they may or may not be correct. Been messing with his thing for a month and I'm ready to get it out of my yard lol

 

[bryson]

Are you certain the engine is at TDC on compression when you're setting the dizzy? It can look very similar when it's at TDC on the exhaust stroke. Remember the timing mark on the balancer will line up at TDC 2 times for one complete stroke...

Best way to tell without taking valve covers off would be to check for compression via the spark plug hole when you're turning the engine over by hand.

 

[jmaxj]

Now that you mention it, I think the first few time I was on the compression stroke. The more my brain started to fry the less I noticed what stroke. (possibly) I'll have a bit of time tomorrow night after work to set it at TDC again and double check which stroke.

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[Magerdgr]

Also double check that the plug wires are going to the right cyls. Outside of those, if you're sure it's at TDC on the comp stroke, and plugs/wires all line up, make sure that your timing chain hadn't slipped.

 

[jmaxj]

OK I reset to TDC on compression stroke. Double checked plug configuration. (still not 100% sure on that.) pointed rotor to #1 cylinder. Cranked it over and after the second time when I turned off the key a big loud backfire came through the carb. Cranked a couple more times with still nothing at all. Any other way to check timing gears without ripping the front of the motor apart?


If anyone is free and willing to take a trip to Herriman sometime I'd love another set of eyes that knows these to have a look. I'd pay with either beverage of choice or some cash.

 

[Magerdgr]

Kinda random, but also make sure the exhaust isn't plugged. I had one like this once that really had me stumped until I cut the pipe off and found a huge mouse nest inside the middle. Had enough seeds to fill a couple quart jars! Ran like top after that. You could pop a valve cover and confirm that the valves are where they should be at TDC for timing. Have you tried having someone crank it while you slowly rotate the distributor? Note: wear some good rubberized gloves and know that if your cap or wires are bad you may get lit up here. Hmmm... Makes me wonder, we may be overthinking this, how are the cap and wires? I've even had bad caps right out of the box before. If the cap or wires are defective it'll send the spark random and act this way too. Just a thought.

 

[Tacoma]

I might have a manual that covers that motor. I'll look tomorrow, it's in my storage unit-- but I go through Herriman twice a day.

 

[Rock Taco]

OK I reset to TDC on compression stroke. Double checked plug configuration. (still not 100% sure on that.) pointed rotor to #1 cylinder.

Is been awhile since I have worked on a motor with a distributor and maybe I'm not remembering correctly but you should be pointing the rotor at the #1 cylinder wire on the cap not the cylinder itself.

 

[boogie_4wheel]

Also double check the gap on the points.

 

[jmaxj]

I might have a manual that covers that motor. I'll look tomorrow, it's in my storage unit-- but I go through Herriman twice a day.

That would be helpful

Is been awhile since I have worked on a motor with a distributor and maybe I'm not remembering correctly but you should be pointing the rotor at the #1 cylinder wire on the cap not the cylinder itself.

That's what I was thinking also. But everyone kept saying cylinder.

Also double check the gap on the points.

No points. That got eliminated with the pertronix stuff.

 

[Jinx]

One thing I had a while back was a distributor cap that had been dropped and there was hair line crack that you could barely see was allowing two cylinders to fire at once and caused a similar situation that you are facing. $13 for a new cap and it ran like a champ.

Good luck. Sorry for not reading this thread earlier.

 

[Jinx]

Is been awhile since I have worked on a motor with a distributor and maybe I'm not remembering correctly but you should be pointing the rotor at the #1 cylinder wire on the cap not the cylinder itself.

This is a 100% right if the rotor isn't pointing to the wire that goes to cylinder #1 there is no way to for spark to get to right place.

(Pretty sure this is what everyone is trying to explain but I can see where it would be easy to get confused)

 

[jmaxj]

One thing I had a while back was a distributor cap that had been dropped and there was hair line crack that you could barely see was allowing two cylinders to fire at once and caused a similar situation that you are facing. $13 for a new cap and it ran like a champ.

Good luck. Sorry for not reading this thread earlier.

On these odd fires don't two fire at once anyway? I still don't get how these motors work.

This is a 100% right if the rotor isn't pointing to the wire that goes to cylinder #1 there is no way to for spark to get to right place.

(Pretty sure this is what everyone is trying to explain but I can see where it would be easy to get confused)

That's what I always thought but everyone kept saying cylinder so I went with that. Gonna try pointing to the wire when I get a chance to mess with it again. I'll look the cap over as well

 

[bryson]

On these odd fires don't two fire at once anyway? I still don't get how these motors work.

That's what I always thought but everyone kept saying cylinder so I went with that. Gonna try pointing to the wire when I get a chance to mess with it again. I'll look the cap over as well

No no no no no... Rotor pointing at the #1 plug wire on the cap. The rotor couldn't care less about anything outside the distributor cap.

Also, because of the way a distributor like this works, there is no way to fire 2 cylinders at once. The "Odd Fire" references the difference in the V angle (90*) of the engine versus the separation of the crank pins (120*) on the crank shaft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V6_engine#Odd_and_even_firing

 

[Magerdgr]

No no no no no... Rotor pointing at the #1 plug wire on the cap. The rotor couldn't care less about anything outside the distributor cap.

Also, because of the way a distributor like this works, there is no way to fire 2 cylinders at once. The "Odd Fire" references the difference in the V angle (90*) of the engine versus the separation of the crank pins (120*) on the crank shaft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V6_engine#Odd_and_even_firing

Yup, 100% correct on both points, nailed it Bryson! That motor will never run if not pointed at the #1 wire on the cap when #1 is at TDC on Compression stroke.

 

[jmaxj]

No no no no no... Rotor pointing at the #1 plug wire on the cap. The rotor couldn't care less about anything outside the distributor cap.

Also, because of the way a distributor like this works, there is no way to fire 2 cylinders at once. The "Odd Fire" references the difference in the V angle (90*) of the engine versus the separation of the crank pins (120*) on the crank shaft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V6_engine#Odd_and_even_firing

Makes sense, I'll try that next.

Yup, 100% correct on both points, nailed it Bryson! That motor will never run if not pointed at the #1 wire on the cap when #1 is at TDC on Compression stroke.

So much misinformation all over the place about this motor I'm slowly weeding out what's correct and what's not.

Thanks all for the help so far.