Death Wobble with Hydro-assist cause return line to pop off?

[thenag]

So my wife was driving home today and hit a bump and said it felt like a Death Wobble, she had to slow down for it to quit. The xj then spewed power steering fluid everywhere, the return line coming off the steering box has a hose clamp holding the hose to the line, this hose came off (spraying PS fluid into the electric fan...).

This jeep has never really had DW, it has johnny joints in the front end, it does have GM 3/4 ton TRE and a ball joint d60. The ball joints are pretty new as the TRE's. The track bar has a big Johnny Joint on the frame end and a smaller one on the axle end. It does have a high steer drag link that is parallel to the track bar (not level but parallel) There are no bushings on this front end, I have hit a bump and felt 1 wobble and then it goes away (like it wanted to DW but there is no play so it can't)

37's on steel wheels. Stock xj box home ported for hydro-assist, with a surplus center ram, a wj(?) PS pump with the xj hose fitting drilled (redneck PS style)

So with this setup, could the wheels DW, and the feedback into the ram cause pressure on the return line of the PS box causing the line to pop off? (any other theories? could the line have come loose and some air gotten in the system causing something weird? just a coincidence that DW and PS leak happened same time?)



Overall I am glad she is safe and didn't cause any damage to the jeep or other vehicles, all though anybody next to her got PS fluid all over their car...

Thanks

Nathan

 

[I Lean]

I don't see how anything like that could cause pressure to spike in the return line. For one thing, all the pressure to either side of the ram is on the "high pressure" side of the box. Plus, the return line is open on the reservoir end, so there should never be much/any pressure in that line anyway. I'd start by checking the return line/reservoir for obstructions. Then check everything in your front end for any play or loose bolts, to figure out the cause of your wobble. I'm thinking the two things only happened at the same time by coincidence. (or the wobble was enough to shake off the last little bit of hose that has been working its way off the barb...)

 

[RogueJeepr]

I just recently had this happen on the freeway. It was scary but not as bad as my 32 did.
When it did it I was towing my teardrop and the front tires were at 30 psi. On the way back I aired up to 45 and no DW. It seems that overpasses with big gaps (bumps) sets mine off.
I'll be looking into the track bar for sure.
What's a good track bar for 3-4"
lifts ?

 

[thenag]

I don't see how anything like that could cause pressure to spike in the return line. For one thing, all the pressure to either side of the ram is on the "high pressure" side of the box. Plus, the return line is open on the reservoir end, so there should never be much/any pressure in that line anyway. I'd start by checking the return line/reservoir for obstructions. Then check everything in your front end for any play or loose bolts, to figure out the cause of your wobble. I'm thinking the two things only happened at the same time by coincidence. (or the wobble was enough to shake off the last little bit of hose that has been working its way off the barb...)

"should never be pressure in the return line" is exactly what I thought. it is the "should" that I am worried about.

Of course we are going on vacation on Sat (not in the jeep) and it is killing me that I can't spend the next few days figuring this out. There is a chance that the serp belt hit the PS hose. (as everything on my xj... little clearance)

I know how to fix death wobble, buy new everything but everything that could wobble has been replaced because in March of 2015 the inspector said that a ball joint and a TRE was close to failing. (it wasn't) but I still replaced ball joints and TREs. I do need to inspect/rebuild my johnny joints since I have never done them.

I just recently had this happen on the freeway. It was scary but not as bad as my 32 did.
When it did it I was towing my teardrop and the front tires were at 30 psi. On the way back I aired up to 45 and no DW. It seems that overpasses with big gaps (bumps) sets mine off.
I'll be looking into the track bar for sure.
What's a good track bar for 3-4"
lifts ?

I know my dad had a 2006 f250 that would DW a bit, the dealer solution was to put his front tires to 75psi (not outrageous for f250 tires) He always knew when he needed to put air in tires because he would get a little wobble...

As far as a single adjustable track bar, I don't know. I got everything from Clayton it is the bomb diggity.

I would think anything with johnny joints on both ends would be great. I wish I remember what we just put on my father in laws tj... (wait wait... google...) something like this...
http://www.currieenterprises.com/CE-9120TJJ
I don't think he got a currie, but I am pretty sure I made him get one that didn't have a bushing, or a tie rod end on the frame side. He has no lift so his options were slim.

On an xj look into adding strength to the "frame" side bracket...

Nathan

 

[RogueJeepr]

When I had DW on my 32 I put my action cam on the front bumper facing rearward to the front tire.
Its a very scary thing to see in slow motion. It practically yanked the steering out of my hands (manual steering) . I basically had to stab the brakes to get it under control. I'll see if I can find the vid. Not as bad with the xj though.

 

[gijohn40]

I started to get DW and so looked and found the bolt on the lower control arm was just a turn loose. Tightened it up and gone... I know sometimes a bent wheel or one wheel that is out of balance will also cause it as well. Check your caster angle as well. if it gets down to low it can cause it as well.

Lucky for me since ILEAN built me the sweet WJ knuckle system I have a very solid front axle now!!!

 

[thenag]

I drove it a few more times couldn't get a DW. I did get what I have always had, hit the train tracks, I can feel one wobble then it smooths out.

I put it up on jack stands and found significant play in the swivel eyes on my surplus center hydro ram.

The only thing I found on how to protect them was this
http://610bob.com/?p=389

Maybe I can try to us some Dorman TRE boots, I don't think I can get anything in there, there is not much room.

So I am thinking I will end up replacing the ram since the swivel eyes do not seem to be serviceable.

I got side tracked installing my new Ruff Stuff front diff cover... yeah I had to cut it just like everything else on the jeep, I hope I can remember how to weld... (that will end up on my build thread...)

Nathan

 

[RogueJeepr]

Found my reason for DW.
When we had the 100+ temps, I found a puddle under the RightRear of the jeep in the garage. Turns out it was the shock that had blown up and now the front shocks make a noise of some sort. Looks like this RC lift the shocks only lasted for 20k . Lame.

So I'll be looking into lifting this another inch with upper arms, shocks, track bar are in order as well as the stabilizer shock.
Oh and upgrade the cooling system.
Winter project........

 

[thenag]

bad shocks should in no way contribute to death wobble.

neither should a steering stabilizer "fix" a death wobble.

If you haven't seen this, it is very good. It is for a JK but all the parts are the same. (except the metric bolt in the SAE hole that early JK's had...)
http://www.jk-forum.com/forums/jk-w...wobble-fixing-non-dw-shimmies-wobbles-260145/

I seem to remember him saying that a true DW can only be due to bad track bar, I totally disagree since I had DW on my leaf sprung bronco that did not have DW for years then got it until I replaced everything.

*edit... see mbryson's next post...*

Nathan

 

[mbryson]

bad shocks should in no way contribute to death wobble.

neither should a steering stabilizer "fix" a death wobble.

If you haven't seen this, it is very good. It is for a JK but all the parts are the same. (except the metric bolt in the SAE hole that early JK's had...)
http://www.jk-forum.com/forums/jk-w...wobble-fixing-non-dw-shimmies-wobbles-260145/

I seem to remember him saying that a true DW can only be due to bad track bar, I totally disagree since I had DW on my leaf sprung bronco that did not have DW for years then got it until I replaced everything.

Nathan

I've had leaf spring "death wobble" and it doesn't even compare to XJ type front suspension death wobble the first time you experience it. You JUST about need to change your underwear in the coil sprung stuff if at freeway speeds. The leaf spring type is definitely alarming but not quite as scary to me? My opinion to fix it is find ANYTHING loose in the link suspension and trackbar and then check your alignment. EVERY time I've worked with the coil spring stuff, I've found something loose and the alignment a bit off (just remembered I had a situation with a loose track bar MOUNT on an XJ along with an out of balance front tire, so you could add balanced tires to the equation as well). As you mention a steering stabilizer is NOT a fix of any kind.

 

[thenag]

I've had leaf spring "death wobble" and it doesn't even compare to XJ type front suspension death wobble the first time you experience it. You JUST about need to change your underwear in the coil sprung stuff if at freeway speeds. The leaf spring type is definitely alarming but not quite as scary to me? My opinion to fix it is find ANYTHING loose in the link suspension and trackbar and then check your alignment. EVERY time I've worked with the coil spring stuff, I've found something loose and the alignment a bit off (just remembered I had a situation with a loose track bar MOUNT on an XJ along with an out of balance front tire, so you could add balanced tires to the equation as well). As you mention a steering stabilizer is NOT a fix of any kind.

Maybe I have been fortunate enough to never experience a full on DW.

Planman has added a checklist to that post I linked to, I will go through it step by step.

At this point I am thinking that I had some weird thing where the return line popped off the steering box, and the ram did something weird when it got some air in it. The swivel ends of the ram have a significant amount of play but that shouldn't cause a wobble, it might not help once a wobble starts but it wouldn't cause it.

I am fortunate enough that I can afford to replace components long before they are worn out, I just do ball joints every 2 years with Spicer ball joints. (of course part of that is they are much easier to do if they don't have 5 years of rust holding them in) as for TRE's my "old" set is in the back of the jeep and I know would be fine if I had to drive on them long distance.

Nathan

 

[RogueJeepr]

So on the way to reinstall the sign at 5mille. I had a bit of wobble when above 60. Also since my shocks are shot I've been wanting to lift it another inch. So it's time to revamp my rc 3" lift.
Yes I know. Rc ugh!!!
But it served its purpose for a few years and a ton of miles and dirt roads.

So im thinking about adjustable upper control arms and a better track bar. So far my rc lowers have held up great so no lowers (for now)

Uppers ::::: im looking at Rusty's flex ends .

Track bar :::::: not quite sure yet.

Shocks ::::::: probably bilsteins or ome.

Any recommendations for a guy on a budget but wants better than RC's.


Sent from my Z740 using Tapatalk

 

[I Lean]

Depending on what exactly you want in your upper arms...if adjustability is the primary goal, I like sticking with OEM rubber bushings. They usually last a long time and are maintenance-free. Something along the lines of these would work: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Upper-Adjus...herokee-Wrangler-Grand-XJ-TJ-ZJ-/151211571947

Those same guys (in Lehi) offer arms that use Currie Johnny Joints, if you want a flexible joint on one end.

 

[RogueJeepr]

I'll probably go with something like that (oe style bushings). Have you herd good things about the quality on those arms???

Now time to look into track bars.
Im thinking with a new bracket.
Should I get one with the brace also ???

Edit ::: just looked at the IRO double shear adjustable track bar.
Looks beefy. Seems to have good reviews.




Sent from my Z740 using Tapatalk

 

[thenag]

I'll probably go with something like that (oe style bushings). Have you herd good things about the quality on those arms???

Now time to look into track bars.
Im thinking with a new bracket.
Should I get one with the brace also ???

Edit ::: just looked at the IRO double shear adjustable track bar.
Looks beefy. Seems to have good reviews.

Sent from my Z740 using Tapatalk

Clayton seems to like to have a bushing on one end of the control arms for uni-body vehicles, and it kind of makes sense to have one more thing that can suck up some vibration. My rear lowers have a bushing on the axle end. However their "pro" kit which I have up front is all johnny joints. (it's a $4000 lift kit but it has $800 in johnny joints included...)

For control arms bushings are fine, and probably a little desirable on uni-body. I don't know that my xj would ride any different with bushings in the front lowers, with 37's I have plenty anti-vibration... (or 37 inches of vibration causing rubber...)

for track bar, anything is better than OEM. That one says it has a little bit of drop, make sure that will line up with steering etc.

 

[RogueJeepr]

After MUCH deliberation.............. I just ordered the Rusty's adjustable forged upper flex arms , IRO double shear track bar kit and some bilstiens 5100's , oh and a new trans mount.