Delete Winch Hook

[Unimog]

Finally installed a winch on my new JLU. The Smittybilt 12k came with synthetic line and forged hook. I've already invested in some soft shackles as the new, safer mode. How many of you have deleted your winch hook in favor of a loop? Should I even worry about it? Any real-world advice?

 

[Stephen]

I ditched my forged hook in favor of a Factor 55 Ultrahook twoish years ago. I know it's "overland bling", but I've actually used it a lot. Usually with a soft shackle through the milled hole, but occasionally there has been a use for the hook portion, so it's been nice to have both.

 

[pennsylvaniaboy]

I only use a soft shackle thru the eye of my rope. Works just fine. No complaints here.

 

[RockChucker]

I tried this out that I heard about from a friend. Easy enough to undo the loop to loop hitch when the knot can’t pass through whatever you’re booking too.

 

[Kevin B.]

I tried this out that I heard about from a friend. Easy enough to undo the loop to loop hitch when the knot can’t pass through whatever you’re booking too. View attachment 163350

That's a fantastic idea. Did you need a fid to splice it? I've heard you can do it with tape, but I needed a fid to do continuous loops and whoopie slings on my hammock lines.

 

[N-Smooth]

I'm a fan of no hard parts in the winching system for sure

 

[RockChucker]

That's a fantastic idea. Did you need a fid to splice it? I've heard you can do it with tape, but I needed a fid to do continuous loops and whoopie slings on my hammock lines.

I'm definitely no rope expert, but it has been fun to dabble. I followed this video to do the splice:

I bought some aluminum knitting needles at wally world to make my own fid. Cheap and available at the time I needed. I just cut the back end off on a ~45° angle and de-burred it.

 

[UPNO4]

Been playing around with different options I just broke down and bought the Yankum Fairlead since they are on a pretty big sale. Probably still a little on the spendy side but better. We also tied up a version of a Freedom rope idea from Bleepin

 

[spaggyroe]

I saw that the Bleepin Jeep guy is selling a winch line that is intended to be used with no hook.
Similar to what @RockChucker posted above.

Freedom Winch Line | BleepinJeep

bleepinjeep.com

 

[N-Smooth]

Bubba Rope sells one with a fancy non-metal thimble too. They sponsored me for a couple years and they were very passionate about keeping heavy, hard parts out of winching. I was impressed even chatting with them about it. Super well-executed idea but 80' is a lot of line (and pricy) though...

3/8" x 80 FT Synthetic Winch Line

This is the most advanced synthetic winch line for steel and other synthetic winch ropes. We started with a rigid non-metal eye. Strong as steel but safer and lighter than a heavy steel thimble. This Winch Line by Bubba Rope comes with a Gator-Jaw® Synthetic Shackle, Life Guard™ anti-chafing...

www.bubbarope.com

Their nexgen soft shackles are sweet too. They have a sliding rubber piece instead of having to deal with the knot or whatever.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Opinions, everyone has them. Happy to share mine but you get what you pay for.

I like a single loop at the end with a deep-bury McDonald Brummel splice. There can downsides, the primary being a way to attach/store the winch line when not in use. Hooks, Flatlinks, Sidewinder, etc provide a way to store line on the spool with enough tension against the fairlead to keep tidy line dressing. This is harder with a simple loop and often results in users stretching them across their bumpers to a recovery point and attaching them with a SPBS or soft shackle. This can leave the line exposed to abrasion, debris and UV. Mostly mitigated with some of the newer fair-leads on the market, loop-guard type setups, or a large button/overhand variant knots setup to to allow tension. I find myself winching a great deal, between classes, I4WDTA projects, the UORRT and my personal adventures, winch use is often weekly... I can't really say I've run into many (or any) occasions where I wished I did not have a Flatlink or similar when present on the end of my rope, thus I've not gone as far as to remove them yet. BUT, I've also never had an end link fail and become a mass moving quickly through the air. As I swap out ropes on my vehicles (I've got 600' of 7/16" in my garage that @Paul R and I need to build into winch ropes), I'll likely go with a single spliced loop and be done with it.

At that same time, I'll drastically reduce my line lengths and convert older synthetic ropes into extensions. Much more utility out of a shorter rope for most scenario's AND you get your winch operating in it's optimal working range (layer 1, etc) more easily. If I need more distance, simply connect one of the winch line extensions. Carrying a winch line extension, two pulley blocks and soft shackles also makes it very easy to get 4:1 and various other rigging effects. Many winches still come with 100' of line, it's not a bad idea to take that brand new line and cutoff ~35' to make an extension.

Re: Using a loop to loop knot to incorporate a soft shackle into the system as @RockChucker has setup. You will likely encounter some strength loss, I'm seeing anywhere~5% being listed and that is on fishing sites so not completely fair to compare, I've not tested. That is pretty small loss and should be well under the MTS and subsequent WLL of both the synthetic winch rope and the soft shackle for any proper recovery resistance you are attempting to overcome. My bigger personal concern is your changing the way a soft shackle works, particularly the variant of soft shackles I prefer which tighten the noose of the soft shackle adjacent to the knot when loaded, making it very impossible to slip out event of you have some funky motion and dynamics (tight/loose/tight action) happening which is common when winching yourself with some drivetrain assistance or when winching someone else that may be assisting with their drivetrain. With the soft-shackle knot inserted through the winch lines loop, it's undoubtedly secure when the line is reasonably tensioned but if tension drops, it could slack enough to drop or pull the knot out. Admittedly very unlikely but it as doesn't provide any additional utility to the line, I'd recommend best practice be just using the loop and soft shackle sans loop to loop.

 

[RockChucker]

@cruiseroutfit that lines up with the literature I've seen in terms of strength loss. I've also considered the knot slipping out. This shouldn't be much of a concern for me, as the loop to loop connection is mostly a storage strategy for me. The knot on the soft shackle I'm using here has mostly been too large to fit through and I've had to undo the loop to loop connection and then I just use the soft shackle as normal.

I like your thoughts about shortening the length of line on the drum and turning ~35' into an extension. I'm assuming you have deep bury Brummell splices for a loop on each end of the extension? Do you typically run about a 50' winch line?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

@cruiseroutfit that lines up with the literature I've seen in terms of strength loss. I've also considered the knot slipping out. This shouldn't be much of a concern for me, as the loop to loop connection is mostly a storage strategy for me. The knot on the soft shackle I'm using here has mostly been too large to fit through and I've had to undo the loop to loop connection and then I just use the soft shackle as normal.

That totally makes sense and provides a good way to keep tension on the line without having much exposed outside of the soft shackle itself.

I like your thoughts about shortening the length of line on the drum and turning ~35' into an extension. I'm assuming you have deep bury Brummell splices for a loop on each end of the extension? Do you typically run about a 50' winch line?

Yup, deep bury McDonald Brummel splice on each end. 50-60' is my goal with this next overhaul. I'll use the Safe-Xtract method to retain them to the drum.

 

[Unimog]

I appreciate all the comments. I ended up just removing the winch hook and put a brummel eye on the end of it. Sorry about the brown loop guard for the color-conscious. I have a bunch of tubular climbing webbing that had to be retired anyway and it happens to be brown. I will probably unwind it and take the removable line guard off since there really isn't room for it. Longer term, I may follow Kurt's lead and cut it down to 50' and make an extension with the rest that just has loops on each end.