Did anybody see this?

Coreshot

Resident Thread Killer
Location
SL,UT
bobdog said:
I don't know tigerstripe and he may be a SUWA hippy lover for all I know but I think his point was that trucks crossing rivers can hurt the fish habitat. He was responding to Rockmonkys statement that 4x4s don't affect the fish and so what if they do. I think we would all be better off if we admit the damage we do and try to minimize it as best we can. We do affect the environment and to say that we have no effect on the land lowers our credibility because the effects are visibile to everyone. At the same time we must fight false claims harder. SUWA and other greenies constantly spew false claims that are almost never rebutted because the OHV community has very little voice in the mainstream media. This Jeep Jamboree run has been controversial for at least 13 years that I know of. It seems to me (and my memory is not allways great) that it used to be fragile indian artifacts and ruins that the greens said needed to be protected from the destuctive tires of the evil Jeeps. I can't remember them saying anything about fish or owls.

I don't question that we affect the enviroment. All I'm saying is that those stream crossings have been there for a very long time, probably through a hundred generations of the endangered fish. The fish are still there. Once the crossings are in place, I don't think that the impact at those points changes much.
 

parks_pop

Active Member
Location
Stansbury Park
Coreshot said:
I thought this forum was for rock crawling enthusiasts, not SUWA loving hippies that happen to have a Land Cruiser. One more thing, does your "custom tiger striped dash" help your 2F leak less? :rolleyes:


I thought this forum was for anyone who logged on. My bad.

If this guy likes to wheel does that mean he should have no other concerns/interests in his life? Yeah, damn him for multitasking :rolleyes:
 

TigerStripe40

Arrogant Bastard
Location
Salt Lake City
Coreshot said:
The trail crosses the stream in several places, the SAME several places it has crossed it for 50-100 years. You can't tell me that the river even has banks to be eroded at these points. In between crossings, there is plenty of habitat for the "endangered" fish. You seem to be the authority on the matter, so why don't you tell us exactly which species it is that's endangered. It's very easy for enviros to say that endangered species are there, and the public takes it for the truth. As for your comment about us having more rights than the animals, it kind of goes along with being at the top of the food chain.

I thought this forum was for rock crawling enthusiasts, not SUWA loving hippies that happen to have a Land Cruiser. One more thing, does your "custom tiger striped dash" help your 2F leak less? :rolleyes:


I carry a drip pan to catch my leaks when I am stopped, and I also avoid trails where my truck will be crossing rivers....

In any case.
I was simply bringing up a point.
I have friends that 4 Wheel.
I also have friends that are SUWA loving hippies.

I don't give a rats ass one way or another if I can't drive my truck all the way. I am just as happy using my hiking boots.

I do recognize that if SUWA closes established routes, that the 4 wheelign crowd will find other routes.

I also recognize that SUWA exagerates many issues....
DOn't think for a SECOND that the BRC doesn't exagerate issues as well.

Honestly, I don't understand why hells gate and the escalator were closed. I am happy that they were reopened. If the stream crossings were through established rotues the damage is done, nothing can be done about that keep em open.

If there is a new route, that has been proposed, and it crosses a stream where there was no mining in the past, no previous established route, etc. Then I don't believe that there should be a route there.
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
TigerStripe40 said:
It's not so much the tires crushing fish, it's the tires erroding the riverbanks, causing them to wash out. Let me equate that to walkign up to your house and hitting the walls with a sledge hammer...

Apples and oranges...

It would better be equated to tossing a foam Nerf ball at someones walls for 50 years... might see a little loss of paint...

AF Canyon FR 181 (Forest Lake) for example... that river crossing is near 100 years old.. I dare say it has been crossed millions of times... the only ill effects are the sides where irresponsible OHV users have tried to make it "funner"... those routes are closed and marked... the main crossing looks fine...

When you look at the "big picture" these canyons are cleaner than they ever were, back to AF (since it is local)... can you imagine the stream quality when there were 40+ mines operating in the area... Do you think they put drip pans under their rigs? Hardly, arsenic, oils, trash, were all part of our historic mining past... yet huggers are still crying foul on a single water crossing... WTF?
 
Top