DOTW-Suspensions

[Caleb]

I know its been a while since the last "installment" but here is the next

Discussion of the Week

Different suspension setups, what works and what doesn't. What does it take to properly setup a link suspension. Anti-squat, what is it? Spring wrap, what is it or what causes it and what fixes it, what if I dont fix it. What does going SOA from SUA involve. What does the different terms mean (SOA, SUA, 1/4 ellip, 3/4 ellip, coil, coilovers, ...etc) What are some tricks to stretching your wheelbase easily. What are ideal leaf springs to use instead of stock ones (or are the stock ones ideal)? These are just some ideas to get you guys talking and thinking...enjoy

 

[spencurai]

expander type shackles and buggy leafs are crap.

 

[Greg]

OK, I have a tangent for you....

Control Arms- What affect is had if your Lower Control Arms are above the Center Line of your axle? Any?

How far apart should the Arms be, at the Axle?

About a year ago, everyone on POR was talking about how Anti-Squat was evil and you wanted NONE. Now, people build their Link suspensions WITH Anti-Squat and run a Strap to keep the axle from walking under.

Killer Idea.... I believe that Ken Shupe was one of the first to succesfully discover and use this idea to his advantage.

 

[mbryson]

Originally posted by Greg
OK, I have a tangent for you....

Control Arms- What affect is had if your Lower Control Arms are above the Center Line of your axle? Any?.........

I'll know VERY SOON......(they'll actually be almost even with the axle centerline, but very slightly above the centerline--packaging requirements (1/4" or so).............hacked off the lower stock control arm brackets last night......

 

[Caleb]

come on nobody has anything more than this to say about suspensions???

 

[Cody]

ok, I have a question.

what is the diff between 1/4 'liptic and 3/4 'liptic?

Cody

radius arms rule!

 

[Caleb]

Originally posted by GroceryGetter
ok, I have a question.

what is the diff between 1/4 'liptic and 3/4 'liptic?

Cody

radius arms rule!

well the diff is a whole spring pack

ok the 3/4 ellip use a full leaf pack as normal suspension and then it has another half a main leaf up against the frame to allow for some extra droop...the 1/4 ellip just uses a half a leaf spring pack flipped around for the suspension and the droop is killer too...I will see if I can find some pics to show what I am talking about...

 

[Caleb]

here is 3/4 ellip(look close at the rear...its also called a buggy leaf)

and here is 1/4 ellip

 

[Shawn]

Ok,,


Wagoneer Springs Rock!!

 

[crimsonride]

Isn't 3/4 pretty useless, sorta like the extra travel only gets you into more trouble like axle wrap and hopping.

 

[Caleb]

Originally posted by crimsonride
Isn't 3/4 pretty useless, sorta like the extra travel only gets you into more trouble like axle wrap and hopping.

yes and no...the guy who I posted a pic of is 66CJDean on POR(who is an awesome fab guy) and he loves his...he had it front and rear for a while...I dont know if he still does...to me its kinda like the revolvers...its just another gimmick...IMO

 

[love_mud]

Th ebiggest issue I have seen with these .." extreme" flex mods is that they tend to be on the rear, then the front does not flex anywhere near as hard..
I reckon that where possible front and rear shold flex at roughly the same rate (One can have a bit more flex than the other) \But with the front and rear moving evenly the vehcile stay alot more composed and balanced ..

Oh yeah .. scissor shackles, missing links, revlovers etc etc Cool for killer flex on the ramp .. yet to see a set work really well on the trail ..

 

[Cody]

ok, I didn't know 3/4 was the same as a buggy spring. Now I know. Thanks for the info.

Cody

 

[Herzog]

Originally posted by GroceryGetter
ok, I didn't know 3/4 was the same as a buggy spring. Now I know. Thanks for the info.

Cody

Think of it this way:

3/4 eliptical - the Springs make 3/4 of a circle.
1/4 eliptical - the springs only make 1/4 of a circle.

So, standard leaf spring setups are 1/2 eliptical.

 

[love_mud]

Actually the pic above shows exactly what I was talking about.. you can see the vehicle with the 3/4 elleptic setup .. a much larger proportion of the flex is comming from the rear of the vehicle allowing the body to really lean alot on what looks to be ( having never been there or seen it) a realitively easy obsticle.

The front end hardly appears to be working ...

Guy

 

[Hickey]

what Shawn said. Coils aren't all they are cracked up to be. IMHO

 

[troutbum]

cool thread, I too would like to know more about what makes for a balanced suspension?? I have seen a lot of rigs where the rear is doing 80% of the flex before the front end moves???

I have seen others with a pretty good balance, I assume this is a function of spring rate vs weight per corner?

Here is an example 1/4 elip rear (custom pack)/ waggy front that seems pretty balanced

 

[troutbum]

Oh yeah I guess I should give credit to Damian of D&C extreme as he designed and built this, don't think he vists, but I stole the pics from his site so I best recognize!!

 

[cyberduke]

U forgot shackle reversal's. Which in my opinion really doesn't offer much for wheeling. Except...

I have one because it was the easiest (perhaps not the cheepest) way for me to do a SOA (Spring over Axle) conversion w/ wrangler springs. I've been told that Wrangler springs (wider and thinner leaves) flex really well and our comperable in length to CJ springs. The shackle reversal kit is bolt on and my springs are remanned w/ 2 extra leaves in front and one in the rear. However, the rear's started to sag (Scrambler w/ a tire rack...that over hang and extra weight really add up) so we re-arched and added another leaf. I was really concerned about my travel, but it kicked a$$ at EJS, so I'm not so worried.

Now that I'm back from EJS, I'm thinking seriously of bobbing my scrambler (Shhh Von). I'd like to bob it in such a way that I could fit a CJ7 top on it. Which means I have to chop the frame in front of the rear shackle. Which means I need to change the way my rear suspension is. So what do coil overs run in price? Or should I look at a 1/4 eliptic?

Oh and when I'm all done, who's going to inspect it for me so I can still get it registered? LOL

Earl

 

[I Lean]

Originally posted by cyberduke

Now that I'm back from EJS, I'm thinking seriously of bobbing my scrambler (Shhh Von). I'd like to bob it in such a way that I could fit a CJ7 top on it. Which means I have to chop the frame in front of the rear shackle. Which means I need to change the way my rear suspension is. So what do coil overs run in price? Or should I look at a 1/4 eliptic?

Oh and when I'm all done, who's going to inspect it for me so I can still get it registered? LOL

Earl

Coilovers start at around $300 per corner, and go up from there. If it were me, I'd go with coils (or coilovers) before 1/4 elliptic, just because coils are more compact, lighter, maybe easier to mount......

Inspection may or may not be a problem. If you're under the legal height limit, have tire coverage, mudflaps etc, you'll prolly be OK. (I'd think, anyway--but I'm not an inspector dude, so I don't know for sure)